Ethical shopping

[jazzactivist]

I sometimes buy clothes and kitchenware from a discount warehouse, and am wondering whether this is an ethical option for shopping. I always look for, and only buy, clothes and goods that have ethical or fair trade labels or are clearly marked as having been produced in the UK. I can't usually afford them at the full price, but it seems to me that buying them this way at price reductions after they have already been purchased from the producers for the original price and then passed on for end of line sales can be viewed as ethical. For example, I have just bought a set of 3 aqua colour Nigela Lawson mixing bowls for £10 with the Made in Britain stamp on where the original price was £65, and a Fair Trade, organic cotton, People Tree shirt for £6, original price £35. What do others think? Is this an acceptable way to shop more ethically?

[Oola]

Tricky one really, as I don't really understand how the fair trade payments are made in the first place. I would hazard a guess that the co-operative/company/individuals making the fair trade products are given a higher base rate of pay, and this stays the same regardless of how much the retailer then sells the products on for.

I guess your discount warehouse retailer has just bought for the same wholesale rate as other suppliers, but obviously with the volume of products they can stock, they can afford to bring down their prices. As long as the fair trade suppliers are getting the rate they were promised, it's up to the retailer to then decide how much of a premium they whack on afterwards. I have read articles where the fair trade rate of pay isn't actually that great, but the security is that it's fixed and promised (but still could be better). I think I remember seeing a documentary about cocoa growers in Africa, and when they were told the price of coffee overseas they were in disbelief and felt quite angry about the poor rates they received.

I don't see anything wrong with what you've done - I think the issue is when retailers push the price of fair trade up simply because it has a label attached to it. They should be reflecting the true prices so that consumers can understand just what the suppliers are actually being paid, and whether it's really fair or not.

I hope that makes sense!

[eleanor2]

hi jazz i to try to buy made in Britain.mainly for the British economy.it is very difficult.i think the prices are sometimes exorbitant.you only have to look at the wealth in Britain to see the manufacturers are making money(those that can survive cheap imports) so i feel no guilt what soever buying in sales.it clears out old stock for these companies. i do however try my hardest to buy local pottery even if it is expensive.recently i and a friend encouraged by my views.paid a fortune for some local pottery items.however i will see them as special.one will be for daughters birthday or christmas.oneday they will be colectors items.it is the modern bridgewater range s-o-t

[Pippa]

Jazz, I think buying from a discount warehouse is ethical way of shoppin g, we have one near us which buys salvedge from fires etc. so get a lot of books mostly WH Smith, furniture etc. it's always interesting to see what has come in. I try to avoid cheap imports as these have done so much damage to people who make hand crafted, especially hand sewn items in this country. Farm and Charity shops are all ethical. I fear cashmere from Tesco m ay not be, do you suppose child labour is involved in these very cheap clothing lines.

[jazzactivist]

Hi Pippa,

I don't trust anything that Tesco do as they always aregue for cheapness which actually translates as big profits for their shareholders. I think that either child labour or low pay to women is involved in making Tesco's clothing - otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell it so cheaply. I think that Tesco is becoming synonymous with "bad buy" and perhaps a new insult should be created eg "That top seems very Tesco!" or "The resturant was nice, but the food tasted very Tesco". Maybe others can think of similar Tesco insults that we could start spreading around to try to change the culture of shopping there?

I am in two minds about the discount warehouse, as on the one hand it is part of a chain and I don't like my money going to support that type of thing. However, as eleanor says, it is very difficult to buy absolutely everything that you need ethically, and at the orginal price. So when a friend told me that they occasionally have British and Fair Trade leftovers in there I went to have a look. My assumption is that these items have at one time been bought for the original price, but couldn't sell so have eventually ended up in the warehouse. I don't think that these goods are originally sale or return, but I would be horrified to discover that this warehousing is a way around shops buying at the proper price.

One of my favourite songs that I have used many times with my classes is called "Are My Hands Clean?" by a women's a cappella group called Sweet Honey in the Rock. It traces the journey of a sale blouse in Sears through how it was made in different parts of the world, and asks the question about whether we can ignor our involvement. If anyone is interested, you can listen or download it on iTunes from the Sweet Honey album Live at Carnegie Hall.

[Pippa]

Like the sound of the Sweet Honey album, I really miss the women's cappella group since we finished in December, not being able to get enough members to make it work. Although I live on the edge of village out in country, Tesco is my nearest shop, an out of town store nearby. We used to have 2 village shops and 2 petrol stations, all ,long gone of course, due to Tesco. I usually shop elsewhere, but always involves a car journey so I am no fan of Tesco but can understand women with children who live right near the place buy their groceries there but the company is frightening the way it is taking over so much.

[jazzactivist]

Yes, I agree, Pippa. It is especially frightening that Tesco is allowed to be so dominant. In the town where I work, which isn't big, Tesco is being allowed to open up two more stores in addition to their existing big one, so it will then have a store at every entry to the town. I also don't like the way that Tesco has those Parent and Child parking spaces and always seem to have offers on for schools. Parents are seduced by the idea that it is easy shopping and cares about them and their family, but it is really just about developing a new generation of customers through familiarity with Tesco. It's all a bit creepy.

Any suggestions anyone about what to do about this awkward situation? My vacuum cleaner broke and I had spotted one that I liked in a small shop in town, but as we are down to one car due to my partner's accident my neighbour kindly agreed to get it for us when she did her shopping. She came back and proudly presented me with a Tesco one and a handful of money, saying "Look, I found a much cheaper one for you in Tesco that looks just the same!" She knows that we don't shop there, but it was so kind of her to do it along with her family shop that I just said thank-you.

[Pippa]

As soon as you have use of the car, take it back and ask for your money back. It was kind of your neighbour so no need to say anything to her. On the parent and child parking, why is it always so close to the store, do you loose the use of your legs when you have a child?

[jazzactivist]

I have always wondered that too Pippa! I would have thought that teaching your children how to navigate a busy parking area would be quite a useful life skill. I also wonder about those signs in car windows sayng "Baby / child on board". Is this supposed to mean: watch out as this car will be driven badly as the driver's brain will have fallen out now that they are a parent and their mind will now always be on their child instead of on the road!

Thanks for the tip about taking the vacuum cleaner back. It is still in the box and I have the receipt. I hope that she doesn't see me load it into the car. It is especially horrible as it has the TESCO logo on the top of the actual vacuum cleaner.

[SummerSkye]

Jazz, I must ask after reading the above piece what on earth has made you so Anti Parent? Baby on Board signs are usually just the sign of a Proud Parent and also to remind all drivers to drive carefully; babies are precious and very fragile.
Also Pippa regarding parent and child parking being close to the store usually a parent has a stroller/pram plus at least one child as well as whatever shopping they have purchased. It is a consideration made to them by the store to make shopping with them a little easier. Thank goodness not all people are as intolerant as you both appear to be.

[jazzactivist]

Hi summer, I am not anti-parent, just anti the type of parents who seem to think that their family is more important than any other and are entitled to have the best parking spaces, best safety on the roads, best levels of income just because they decided to produce a child. Not all parents are like that, of course, but as I go about my daily life I discover that some are. To me there is a not so subtle hidden agenda going on that parents don't seem to have spotted - that the P and C parking spaces aren't there to be supportive, but to make it easy for you to make your child/ren familiar with their store so that they will become future customers. The P&C parking is often in an even more accessible place than the disabled ones, and this indicates who the shop thinks are it's most lucrative customers! I think that the "Baby on Board" signs are just a bit ridiculous given that everyone should really be driving carefully on the roads and protecting one another's lives as well as our own. People who drive dangerously aren't going to not do so just because someone else has a child in the car. My comment about this was actually supportive of parents. I think that the signs are quite patronising to parents and everyone around them, as it makes it seem that that now that the driver has a child they have become incompetent in some way and have to issue an extra warning - like driving your car with stablisers!

[Oola]

Rich informed me a while ago that the Baby on Board signs were originally for firefighters and ambulance crew, incase of an accident. I guess if the parents are unconscious and can't say anything, the rescue teams may need to know quickly that there is a small child in there that needs to be rescued. I think now they've just become more commercial.

[jazzactivist]

That sounds like a much better plan, Oola. It is a shame that commercial enterprises see a buck in every good idea. After Andy's accident last week it might have been a good idea to have had a "Dog on Board" sign in the window.

[SummerSkye]

Hi Oola, thanks for that insight re the signs; Jazz that is only the way you personally view them, as a parent you would probably look at them through different eyes;
Also, you seem to have run into a different sort of family unit than I have. I have only ever experienced families reaching out to help each other, maybe raising my family in a mainly ethnic area (Italian/Maltese/Spanish) had something to do with this.
As for the parking I am sure most people realise the commercial value behind the convenient spaces but are grateful for the close proximity regardless.

[Ivy]

I don't believe that anybody shops at Tescos BECAUSE of the P&C parking. They shop there for convenience and I personally don't know a single supermarket or shopping mall that has not got these parking lots usually wider than the normal ones so that you can strap the children into their seats even when pregnant and in need for a bit more space! also the trolley return points are usually near so you do not have to leave an un -attendet child in the car.
Supermarkets are very convenient for parents with a tight budget and a lot of mouths to feed. You can do your shopping in one go and have just one checkout and that means just one queue and no shop attendants offering your kids sweets they are not supposed to eat. I tried ( and still do) to buy as much food from our local market when my kids were smaller but the amount of sweets my kids were offered during one trip there would have made our dentist a rich woman if they were eaten.And of course I had the argument with the children when I told the kind ladies ( mostly ladies) that I did not want these sweets for my children often the stall keepers felt offended so I was piggy in the middle....
As for the stickers isn't it just a way of expressing pride? what could be harmful in that? If you put a National trust sticker , a logo sticker of your sailing club or a breast cancer awareness sticker on your car you try to draw attention to the fact that you are associated with these institutions so why not boast that you are a parent? Have you ever tried to find a family car in a large carpark? I only find my golf due to the NT sticker I have in the window (numberplate usually too low if you are scanning a carpark for a black Golf!)

[Redstart]

Mothers on their own with more than one child do need dedicated parking.

Where my daughter used to live the Tesco mother and child parking was not near the store and they had to pass parking cars to get between it and the store. My daughter stopped shopping there because of this as toddlers have a habit of running off and are not aware of danger (makes you wonder how children that age live to reach a more reasonable age!). If you're dealing with one child at that age you need eyes in the back of your head for a second child (and three pairs of arms if you have three, as I had) to deal with everyone at once. I wouldn't like to have to shop in a big supermarket on my own with young children - I just had to deal with the village shop and that was bad enough.

I once found oranges in my shopping bag that I knew I hadn't bought. I knew which child (two year old, blond hair, blue eyes) had done it and thought this would be a good lesson in why we pay for things. So I explained to her why it was wrong to take things without paying for them and we went back to the village shop. She said "sowwi I took dem" and gave them back. Lesson learnt? No. "Ah, isn't she sweet" said the shopkeeper - and gave her a bar of chocolate.

[Ivy]

GRRRR that really makes you wonder does it not? It's just as good as " is he/she/ allowed a sweety?" when the eager eyed toddler is with you... and in command of two perfectly well functioning ears.

[Redstart]

Indeed; I really limited sweets at home but they soon learnt to recognise them as "treats" thanks to other people.

Fortunately she didn't become a kleptomaniac! And at least she stole healthy oranges and not sweeties, so I was bringing her up properly!