Hugh's Chicken Run

[sunflower]

Did anybody watch the first programme of Hugh F.W Chicken Run tonight on Channel 4. It will also be on Tuesday and Wednesday evening at 9.pm. He has become an advocate for chickens! and asking the Town of Axminster to go completely free range with eggs and chickens as meat. The supermarkets feel threatened and he could not access anyone in the battery farm industry to let him in and observe their practices. So he decided to set up three projects. The first project is running his own intensive chicken farm with over two thousand chickens. The second project running alongside are one thousand free range chickens. The idea is, to let people come in and see for themselves what actually happens to these chickens and hopefully change their choice to free range chicken. The third project is supporting a small community of people to rear their own free range chickens for meat as well as growing their own crops. It's very interesting and I am sure will have a great impact on people's way of thinking. He has already made serious enemies with all the major Supermarkets.

[Healing Hands]

Yes I did watch the programme and I am looking forward to watching the other two. Jamie Oliver is doing something more or less the same on Friday evening too. I say good for them. I have not brought a chicken from a supermarket for many years now I always buy Organic Free range birds and the flavour is so much nicer. I do understand though that some families cannot afford to buy Organic but I do also feel that the supermarkets are once again making it so cheap for the consumer to buy one get one free that these families will buy them. Also the fact that the supermarket only pays 3 pence a bird is dreadful but then why are the farmers doing this, why are the producing battery hens is the demand so great for them? Why would the farmers not allow any filming is it because they are ashamed of what the have to do? I am sure most of the farmers would not want to hjave to keep chickens this way. I really do blame the supermarlets.

I will be interested in watching more and then coming back to comment again on what the out come will be.

[Oola]

I didn't watch it - I know what goes on and don't need to see it - but Rich watched it and said it was a little bit boring really! He wasn't expecting lots of gore or anything, just something a bit more informative I think. I guess that will come with the next episode.

To be honest, I don't know whether this sort of thing will work wonders. Many people will not want to watch it because it's too 'gory' for them. So they'll turn the TV off and carry on buying their value or 'basic' chickens, feigning ignorance and claiming poverty. I'm sorry, this sounds harsh but I don't care how poor anyone is, you can always save up a few more pennies and buy a whole free range chicken and make the most out of it. Same with battery eggs - a few more pennies makes all the difference. All it takes is a little effort and time, but I fear that these days, people are far too used to getting what they want, when they want it. Meat should be a treat, not an everyday convenience. We weren't built for it, even leaner meats like chicken.

I embarrassed myself yesterday in Tesco by almost growling at a man who went to the battery egg shelf. As I walked around the corner I said in a very gravelly voice "DON'T YOU DARE!!!!", and Rich told me off a bit lol. I even took myself by surprise. It's just the blatant disregard by so many consumers. Makes me SO angry. Why do people put their greediness (let's face it, a few more pennies for free range makes all the difference to quality of life, taste etc) above animal welfare standards? People that think God or whatever you believe in put animals on this earth expressly for our own exploitation need their heads examining. There's just something so unbelievably cretinous about consumerism in society now. I'm sure many of the choices I've made in the past have been cretinous, but I'm trying my hardest now and sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's really difficult to make what I think, in the circumstances, are the most ethical choices available.

I hope that Hugh's programme does reach more people that I expect it will. I'm glad Jamie and Hugh have decided to back this campaign, it's been a long time coming. If the government decided to step in (which let's face it, they wouldn't) and do something about intensive chicken farming, then consumers would claim that we were living in a nanny state. THe fact is though, is that many consumers are just too greedy, ignorant and self-centred to make what is essentially the right choice about the meat that they buy.

I shall get off my soap box now.... :)

[Oola]

Before I got stuck into my rant (call me righteous, I really don't care ;) ), I forgot a point I was going to make. I don't see how farmers and supermarkets could claim that Hugh was going to make a bad name for them. Wouldn't he only be reporting on what goes on anyway? Doesn't that give you some indication that the farmers and supermarkets know how these practices are not ethical and that it would damage their profits? Says a lot when you read between the lines, I think.

[jazzactivist]

Unfortunately, I didn't watch it, as I opted for the gore of Wire in the Blood on the other channel! I think that this programme may be informative, but agree with Oola that the people who most need to watch it will turn off for one reason or another. The sad thing is that most people only care when something directly affects them or their family for the worse. I am a bit concerned that someone who advocates for organic / free range would be willing to put 2000 chickens through a new battery farm just to make his point. There is a lot of footage of the inhumanity of battery farming available on animal welfare websites, and I am sure that these charities would be happy for this footage to be aired on TV and would benefit greatly from the fee and mention of their name. I can't help thinking that Hugh is being a bit naive with this one.

[fife]

Hi all

I have just wrote an essay to this thread and some how it has not appeared (damn) so i will now out of frustartion keep this one short. I have never knowingly bought a battery chicken or a egg that is not from our farm hens except when the fox has had them, then i would go to waitrose and buy organic eggs as i feed my hens organic food i am by know means a vegetarian but am very fussy about the food i eat and the food i give my children we don't eat meat every day and i have my meat and fish delivered by two farms that nigella lawson not personally recomended as i feel you get what you pay for. My opinion is that people are not educated enough about the food they put in there mouths and that this is the problem with society and that this is why they go for the cheaper value options. To eat meat i have to believe that the meat i bye has been reared and cared for properly the same as vegetables i only bye organic boxes which i also have delivered, this is not on consumers list when buying cheap meat that is purchased from the supermarket if i did have to bye from a supermarket it would only be marks and spencers as i believe they are passionate about where there food comes from if i could and had the time i would only eat what i grew and reared myself.

Meant to add i didn't watch it but will next time it is on!


Fife

[mrsj]

Hi all, Oola I growl at people near the eggs too in a broody-hen way and say things about how disgusting it is to keep animals like that until they pick up a free range box (or the staff come growling towards me ahem).

I am just about to go and see to my girls some of whom have a cold so they are all on antibiotics, poor little things.

[lily]

Just watched the 2nd part, intensive rearing is gruesome. I never buy eggs as we have our own hens, but am now wondering about rearing for the table. Problem is I couldn't kill them, it would have to be a question of me going out for the day and returning to hens prepared for the freezer. Anyone any ideas- sure there must be regs about slaughter anyway?

[Oola]

Slaughter is supposed to be regulated, the trouble is the more intensive the farming, the more slaughtered animals there are that slip through the net and have a less than 'humane' ending.

I couldn't believe that silly woman that used the TYPICAL excuse of being a single mother who couldn't afford a free range chicken. The difference was just over £2, I'm sorry but by the size of her she could obviously make some cutbacks to her spending habits in some departments. It's less than 30p a day that she'd have to cut back to buy that free range chicken. I think she had just decided her opinion and was too stubborn to be seen to change it. Silly old mare.

I'm also watching Lie of the Land at the mo, it's looking at some farming practices. They've just shot a calf....I find it so sad that things are brought into this world only to be killed because they're either 'waste' or not profitable. It's so corrupted and so very, very sad.

[sunflower]

It will be interesting to find out if the experiment worked. Those burying their head in the sand would be faced with paying for extra time and petrol to travel to another town to buy their £2 chicken....so the message would get accross anyway. I really believe the tide is turning

[Oola]

It does seem that there's a glutton of these sorts of programmes appearing on the television now .Well done Channel 4, I say.

Sadly, having read the article "Crying Fowl" on the Guardian's website, there are still those that believe that intensive farming should stay to serve those on low income. Cobblers, I say. We were on a frankly piss-poor wage for months and Rich still managed to buy free range/organic meat one a week or so. Since we've had the hens it's brought it home a bit more for him I think - we can't stand it when people say "they're only chickens". OK, they're not the Einsteins of the animal kingdom, but regardless of what people think, chickens are actually very fast learners, and ours started displaying 'natural' behaviours within weeks of leaving the battery house. Added to that, they know what stress, fear, anxiety and pain is. I'm not humanising them, it's just that they're sentient enough to feel those things - surely our ability to empathise and be compassionate should allow us to reduce that suffering?

When Rich does buy meat from the supermarket he spends quite a long time checking the labels. He says with any sort of pig meat, he prefers to buy it only from a farm about 10 miles from us that sells at our local Farmer's Market - fair prices and we can visit the pigs and see them happily running around and rolling in the mud in the fields. We can speak directly to the farm worker running the stall about slaughter, feed, medication etc.

As a vegetarian I'm somewhat out of the loop - although I'm finding it REALLY hard to get affordable cat food that doesn't use broiler house chicken in it. But I support Rich's ethos that he enjoys the taste of meat, but feels he can now only enjoy it fully when he knows it's had the best possible upbringing and quickest and most painless death. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but I've watched so many of these programmes on television over the past few days I feel I need to vent or I'll go mad!

If only more people would take responsibility, and not turn it into an argument about class and poverty.

[Healing Hands]

After watching last night programme I was amazed that Heather I cannot quite remember her name, Hugh calls her the "mother hen" that she still rufuses to go and buy organic free range chickens and she was still harping on about being a "single parent" and cannot afford a free range which worked out last night about 50 pence more person. I know I said in my thread yesterday that I do feel and understand how it must be for low income people and it must be a struggle, I am sure that at one time some of us have had to struggle with what we earn, but as Hugh pointed out you can make a chicken last for a good few days.

When I buy a joint for a Sunday roast I can make it last all week if I want it too. Surely that is a much cheaper way of watching the pennies. I also will add I always buy organic meat as well and local too.

I am looking forward to seeing the next programme tonight and I am interested to see what Hugh is going to do with the battery hens, will he send them off to be killed for a supermarket or will he save them!

It is a struggle to convert people, but the more these supermarkets put cheap food on the shelves the more the consumer will go and buy. I felt last night that I could go to my local supermarket Budgens and stand out there with a banner!

Good for Hugh and good for Jamie and good for Channel 4 for putting this across and if it helps a small amount of people at least they can say that they have helped those chickens. :)

[magic cochin]

It seems as though Hugh's campaign may have got at least one of the big supermarkets a little bit rattled . . .

This morning I got a letter from Sainbury's (Judith Batchelor, Director Sainsbury's Brand - no less!!!)

It begins: "Over the next few weeks you may see programmes on the television or read articles in the press abut the farming practices used for chicken and egg production. We take our responsibilities for animal welfare very seriously ..."

The letter goes on to explain more about the welfare satndards for chicken sold in their stores and the awards from Compassion in World Farming they received in December. Also that they plan to stop selling eggs from caged hens by 2010 and are working with the RSPCA to improve chicken production methods.

There were also two leaflets giving detailed descriptions of production conditions for each of the sorts of eggs and chicken available from Sainsbury's.

Well, well!!!! Are Sainsbury's a little bit worried Hugh might have dented their profits? Are they hoping to get steal a march on Tescos? Whatever - they thought it worthwhile to mail all their Nectar card holders.

Celia

[Healing Hands]

Why wait until 2010 why can they not do it now? But very interesting that they have taken notice.

[sunflower]

I found tonight's programme really intense, and found myself feeling concerned for Hugh as he met such opposition. A weaker person would have walked away. I think he is brave for seeing this campaign through. I also believe that his campaign and Channel 4's support in showing the programme will have a knock on effect over the next few months. Great changes in society and people's attittudes start with small beginnings and people willing to put their reputation on the line, and Hugh has done just that.

[Oola]

The battery cages are changing in 2010, but all they're offering is a metal perch and a little more space for each hen. They have the audacity to call this an 'enriched cage'. THe supermarkets will probably jump on the bandwagon with this one.

I watched the programme tonight and was heartened by it, but can't help feeling so angry at the sweary pub-goers that couldn't be bothered to put less than the price of a pint towards "just a f**kin tw**ty chicken". Bet they've not been within 10ft of a live chicken in their lives. It's people like this that the government do have to 'nanny', because they're incapable of making an unselfish, ethical and responsible decision for themselves.

[Healing Hands]

Quite agree with you Oola, I was so angry at these men in the pub, I said to Ken if they can afford to go and have a drink and know doubt they smoke too, they could afford to buy a organic free range chicken. These men are pathetic (know doubt larger louts) but you will never change them. I was also very disappointed with Haley when she went a brought 2 chikens for a fiver and then she had the cheek to go to the end of the campaign and stuff her face with the organic chicken. She really did not care about any of it at all.

I also prefered the more humane way that Hugh's man who kills the chickens, when they go to be killed for the supermarkets they got the neck sliced where as Hugh's man sliced from inside the beck. Sounds gory I know and although I could never be vegetarian it make make think that I could not eat meat again!

I am looking forward to seeing Jamie's programme on Channel 4 on Friday evening at 9 pm "Jamie's Fowl dinners also featuring Hugh, Gordon Ramsey and Bill Oddie. they meet up with the beleaguered poultry farmers who make as little as 3 pence per chicken, to discuss such methods and whether it's time to have a serious rethink about our attitude towards chicken farming.

[jazzactivist]

I agree with the comments here that people are unnecessarily hanging on to the poverty argument to avoid changing their shopping habits. Many people believe that the way to solve poverty is to provide cheap, low quality food. The thing is that they don't realise the bigger picture, that the price of food from supermarkets is artificially low, and this actually gives the Government the justification to keep incomes low. Each year for the Budget the Chancellor uses a shopping basket of basic and, now, a few luxury goods to consider which taxes can be increased. The cost of this basket also forms the basis for deciding levels of welfare benefit and public sector salary increases. The lower the price of goods, the poorer people are allowed to be. This is the type of education that needs to take place alongside educating people to buy more ethically, as most uneducated people don't take action unless they can see how it is directly affecting them and their family, and are presented with easy solutions to change.

[Oola]

Some really interesting points that I'd not considered jazzactivist. I wish you would post on the Crying Fowl 'have your say' debate on the Guardian website - so many there are using the class/poverty angle and this would be a really good point to put across to them.

Agree with you too Healing Hands about Hayley just stuffing her face at the end - she really is a hypocrite. I would have been interested to see exactly what she had in her trolley in the supermarket, and whether she could have spared £2. I would have thought that the answer would be yes, mothers are frugal creatures I think and she could have juggled it so that she could have had treats and splashed the extra cash on a free range chook.

I really hope this is the year that attitudes towards chicken farming (and all intensive farming) start to change. So many people have been wanting this change for years, but the government won't budge partly because they profit so well, the consumers won't budge because the supermarkets won't budge, so something has to change at some level to get the ball rolling. If more people demand organic or free range chicken, the supermarkets will provide. They're a business and will just go where the money takes them. Let's hope this is start of something very big.

[Healing Hands]

I was talking to a farming friend of mine today and we were discusing the issues on Chicken farming and that you can buy 2 for a fiver and the attitudes to the lower income people. She was saying that if there was aban on the farming as it is today then the supermarkets go abroad and get thier chickens, and other meats from there, so it would still be in the shops and as she pointed out, the conditions maybe even worse then here!

Their farm has been Organic now for some years and she said it was very hard to sell their meat, but life is getting better for them through farmers markets and some of the local butchers buying straight from the farmers, but it has been a long haul for them.

I have always wanted chickens of my own ever since I was little, so now I am going to get a few hens. Oola I will be needing some good sound advice. They will be laying hens NOT for eating!

[Oola]

I'd more be than happy to give you any advice or answer your questions, just fire away! Are you looking to get pure breeds or rescue hens?

[Crocus]

You know, in our country these kind of issues do not really surface! Here and there a few groups are campaigning for chickens and animals to be treated as humanely as possible, but at the same time, tribalism prefers to slaughter animals in their back yards (in suburban areas at that!!) when a wedding or funeral are celebrated!! This has been in the news papers a few times and the only excuse is that that's their way of doing! We here in the Western Cape fortunately now have organic milk on our shelves which are not available in the rest of the country as yet. Organic eggs are freely available but what ethics are followed in producing these organic eggs, is a wide open question.

[Redstart]

Battery hens were banned here years ago and a couple of years later so were all imports of battery hens and their eggs. Imported chicken breasts in one supermarket were stopped when they discovered the exporters were lying about their origin. There are unscrupulous people everywhere!

I'm pleased to say I have a choice between barn or free-range eggs; I buy from my local farm - I can see the hens running about in a very large run (a field in fact), although in winter they prefer to stay in a warm barn. I know those hens get only correct hen food and the flavour is so much better than ones I can buy in the supermarket. The farmer's wife apologises if the eggs were laid more than 2 days ago. I buy my pork and veal from that farm as well because I can visit the animals, know they are cared for and know they are not given medication or any other chemicals. The animals, like the hens, also know what fresh air is!

Yes, the price of chickens went up slightly when battery hens and eggs were banned, but people still wanted to buy chicken and did so, making economies elsewhere if they had to. If this country can do it, so can any other - it just takes the political will.

[Healing Hands]

I am looking forward to see what Jamie comes across with tonight.

So Redstart if your country can do then why can't we? I get so annoyed. It has been said that if we stop the way the chickens are being farmed the supermarkets will buy from abroad. I think this country needs to take a look at yours.

Oola pure bred hens as I would not know where to go for rescue hens.

[Oola]

Healing Hands if you let me know the county you live in I could probably give you contact details for rescue hens - I think they only cost 50p each. If you;d rather go for pure breeds then no worries :)