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Clunkshift
05-01-2010, 08:41 AM
At risk of being either boring or alarmist, any ethically minded person should be aware that we are on the edge of gas shortage.
This link is for the Financial Times but the “news” is common to several agencies:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6990fba0-f999-11de-8085-00144feab49a.html

Basically, we are too dependent on gas for our energy needs and we are net importers (rather than suppliers) of gas.We have closed down Coal and Nuclear power stations and built more gas fired stations which are in direct competition with industrial and home consumers.

Some of our North Sea gas fields have less than 15 years gas in them and already have to have the pressure raised by flooding to extract the remaining gas, which is also more “sour” than in its heyday and it contains much more sulphur and sulphides like H2S, making gas production much more expensive. To make up our deficiency, we buy gas directly from Norway, Nigeria and the Netherlands, and indirectly from Russia.

To consider gas as a more “green” fuel than coal or nuclear is not a simple argument as to obtain natural liquefied gas (NLG) from Nigeria, we pay a corrupt industry/regime for gas which has to be liquefied for transport and storage and the liquefaction puts tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, then we burn oil in huge tankers which bring the NLG to Milford Haven for storage and distribution.
Some of the natural gas that we buy in Europe is actually piped in from Russia, and the only way to push the gas so far along pipelines is to have plenty of gas turbines driving huge compressors at regular intervals, i.e. burning some of the gas to propel it along the thousands of miles of pipelines, and if too many people want gas from the pipelines, you have to turn up the power on the compressors and thus burn even more gas to maintain supply.

I am prepared to acknowledge climate change, but I see the case for blaming everything on burning fossil fuels as an unproven claim. I do however thing that all energy resources are too valuable to waste. Yes I drive a second-hand Jeep 4x4, but its “dust to dust” energy consumption is still better than a hybrid using exotic batteries (google dust to dust for more info).
Winter temperatures in China, Canada, USA, Russia and Scandinavia are much lower than usual at the moment (down to -50 instead of -30 °C) and worldwide energy consumption is very high at present (where is this global warming and how hot does next summer have to be to cancel out these cold figures?).

Many of you know that I dislike Christmas lights on grounds of energy waste and light pollution, but if our cold spell continues and we continue to burn energy “because we can afford to”, we may soon find that we can’t afford it much longer and may also suffer shortages.

I work in an energy industry and am currently working on a “coal to liquids” project. It wouldn’t go down well in Copenhagen or Kyoto as it produces tons of CO2 but it does produce liquid and gaseous hydrocarbon for countries like China that have little oil and virtually no gas – does that sound a familiar situation?

We need to get serious about energy needs versus “conservation” and explore all energy sources – wind, water, geothermal, waste furnaces, nuclear etc. Forget hydrogen, it costs more in energy to produce that you recover in its use if you try to produce it “cleanly”.
Most energy systems that people complain about; nuclear reactors, waste furnaces, coal liquefaction etc are based on technology of between 60 and 100 years ago, all of these processes can be made much more efficient and cleaner now, but only if “green” prejudices are suspended. A good proportion of my packaging has to go to landfill because they can’t recycle PET. If it was burned in a furnaces with a well scrubbed exhaust, it could be generating electricity and the ash residue would take up less landfill.
The only other answer, which has plenty of historic precedence, is to have a good world war, followed by an epidemic or two, to reduce world population to sustainable levels in all climates.

Keep warm
Clunk

eleanor2
05-01-2010, 09:13 AM
now now clunk.i say people should stop complaining about wind turbines.they are sustainable energy.we should be seeing more of them.water power.this can produce loads of clean energy.tapping gases from waste tips.we have been to spoilt in this country with affordable energy.we need to start taking more natural steps to producing it.our car runs on l.p.g my hubby says this is recycled fuel.it cost £1000 to install the system.but with travelling through france so often we are re- couping the costs already i think.as it costs half normal fuel. clunk i have heard some where about fuel being made from water.have you heard of this.

jazzactivist
05-01-2010, 12:55 PM
Thanks for all that useful information, clunk. I see that British Gas are warning customers that we may run out of gas supplies very soon if this extreme weather continues. Even if we all use less gas, which most people can't if we only have gas central heating and the weather is so cold, I expect that they will find some way of using this situation to their financial advantage and charging us all more. I am well and truly fed up with the way that utitilities companies milk people for every penny that they can get for something that is so essential. I would love to have my own sustainable woodland and heat my house using my own wood and generate electricity using my own micro power units. Once we buy another house I am going to do so too, and take great pleasure in telling our gas and electricity suppliers where to go with their geedy mitts. If everyone did this it would kick them into touch. I don't agree with wind turbines, as the utilities companies want to build these on a massive scale in some of the most beautiful parts of our country, just to make it cost effective for themselves! 6 fine, 60 or 200 not.

I think that the way to go is for individuals or small groups in communities to build and install our own energy sources to provide for our own needs. One of my brothers-in-law lives in a house that is basically heated and powered by a ground source pump and methane catchment and solar panels on the school, and it only costs them £10 per month, and the costs has stayed the same for 15 years! Part of the problem in some local areas is that Council planning depts are in such close cahoots with the energy companies that they turn down applications for micro units such as solar power and small wind trubines. There is an affordable community housing initiative near where I live that want to build solar panels and two wind turbines into their housing design and their planning apps have been constantly turned down. However, they have been told that they can link up to the national grid and gas supply for free. Work that one out!

I think that we should all look at where we can make cuts in our energy use in our own homes, and try to bring it down as low as possible. Do we really need a radiator on in a hallway or to use a dishwasher? Also positioning radiators on internal rather than external walls saves a lot of energy. We did this when we installed the central heating in our alst two houses and we notice the difference in heat and cost with this one where the radiators are all positioned on exterior walls under windows. It isn't our house, so there isn't anything that we can do about it, but it is simple ideas like this that save the most.

eleanor2
05-01-2010, 03:29 PM
i have no heating upstairs except one radiator running from our log burner.we dry washing on it and it warms grandsons bedroom through the wall and pipes under his floor boards.everyone who chucks out and rubbish wood calls us.we can have central heating on low all day and night when the fire is going.soon as weather warms up central heating will only be on about 3 p.m ready for when hubby comes in cus he moans.my sister came here yesterday.she works in a care home.she came from work which is red hot.to my house .i was warm enough with my big jumper on and heating on low.she was freezing.

Clunkshift
06-01-2010, 11:14 AM
Eleanor,

LPG is liquified petroleum gas and is produced at an oil refinery. After crude oil has beed "cracked" and distilled into liquids - kerosene, gasolene, paraffin etc, there are gases left over which can be separated (fractionated) into LPG, ethane, ethylene, methane etc.
Where there is a market, the LPG, ethylene and methane are liquified by compression, but if not, these are used as fuel gas to power the refinery itself.
Where economic the LPG is produced and it is cheaper than liquid fuels because the market is limited. If more people used LPG it would become more expensive.
Having said that, I approve of your OH's choice and would run a V8 jeep on LPG if I found a good one to convert.

Fuel made from water would be hydrogen.
Hydrogen can be produced in several ways, but all of them are too expensive at present.
http://www.energyindependencenow.org/pdf/fs/EIN-WhereDoesHydrogenFuelCo.pdf

Clunk (snowed in today)

souter girl
06-01-2010, 11:42 AM
I read today that wind turbines need a wind speed of at least 14 mph to turn and in this present anticyclonic weather the air is particularly still (under 8MPH) so no juice!
I may have got the techie details totally wrong, but the general idea is there!!!::confused:

Pippa
06-01-2010, 11:53 AM
As a country dweller who does not have gas piped to the house, I rely on oil and coal for heating but do have a little LPG Cooker which runs on propane. There are lots of villages around here that do not have access to gas supplies so don't blame us for using it all up.

eleanor2
06-01-2010, 04:33 PM
thanks for info clunk.............
nor me pippa i am frugalwith my gas.
come on whos using all the gas up.wait a minute hasnt sheddy just had new central heating.......

jazzactivist
06-01-2010, 06:00 PM
When we bought our last house there was no gas in the village, so we had to choose between LPG or Oil central heating. At the time Oil was much cheaper than LPG, and even cheaper than gas, so we opted for that. Then the price of heating oil shot up, and up and up... I can't believe that Britain is running out of gas, as the utility companies make such huge profits that I am sure that they can afford to buy in more at the moment AND NOT PASS THE COST ONTO THEIR CUSTOMERS!!! Other countries seem to be much better prepared for the weather and for using less energy than Britain is, and that is due to their governments working out people's real needs first and then allowing companies to make a profit, rather than the other way around.

We will all have to reduce the amount of energy over the next few years, as we have already entered what is known as the period of Peak Oil, and from now on all energy reserves will start to run out. Adjusting our lifestyles to use less gas, electricity and oil is called Powering Down, and some towns are already making a bi effort to do this across all sectors and are officially known as Transition Towns / Villages. Totnes in Devon is the most famous of these. Have a look at www.totnes.transitionnetwork.org for some interesting information.

purcell
27-01-2010, 02:45 PM
An Ofgem report a few months back led some to warn of a return to the 'dark ages' in the UK, in the form of power cuts. Whatever the result of this so-called 'generation gap' - the projected shortfall in supply as a result of power stations closing without sufficient generating capacity taking their place - it does seem certain that we're likely to continue experiencing hefty gas and electricity price hikes. As a result, solar thermal power will come to seem more and more cost-effective (the payback time is generally shorter than for photovoltaics). An efficient solar thermal system such as the LaZer2, designed here in the UK by SolarUK, will provide virtually all a family's domestic hot water requirements during the warmer months.

Of course, this should be done in conjunction with the 'powering down' mentioned above - trying to minimize use of the boiler, turning the thermostat down, and perhaps installing a 'smart meter' to track consumption (the Government wants every home to have one by the end of 2020).

Ivy
27-01-2010, 03:16 PM
Bio gas has become a second income for German farmers in the last couple of years. Sadly the most dung( the raw material for bio gas) is produced where I would NEVER buy for other reasons. Big stables with 1000 and more pigs more factories than farms. But if this kind of meat is produced to still the growing hunger for cheap meat, than the waste might as well be used for something environmentally useful. I do agree this weather is not good for anti global warming campaigns. Today we have cosy-5°C and it just started to snow again,