Naming Teddy

[jazzactivist]

No-one can have missed the item in the news about the British teacher in Sudan who allowed the small children in her class to name the class teddy bear "Mohammed", which resulted in her being arrested and taken into custody with the prospect of being sentenced to 3 months in jail or 40 lashes, or both. There are many ways to look at this incident: Was this just naiveity, incompetence, lack of inernational training, Western imperialism, extreme laws, or..... what do you think?

[susiedart]

I feel sorry for the poor woman, having thought she was going to have a better life in the Sudan & now all this. I am sure it was naiveity on her part & total over the top extreme laws of another country.

[jazzactivist]

Brave woman responding to such a controversial thread, susiedart, but I'm glad that you did! Although I don't agree at all with arresting her, or the type of punishment, I think that it is a fascinating case, and it has made me think. Isn't it a bit strange that she thought that she was going to have a better life in the Sudan where millions of people are starving? Also, is it a teacher's responsibility not to be naive and to make sure that she knows about the culture, religion and laws of the country that she will be working in? Although this case seems extreme, do we have any teddy bears in 'Christian' countries called "Jesus" or "God"? It seems to me that even though we don't have such harsh laws, if children wanted to call the class teddy by one of those names they would probably be quickly discouraged, and if a teacher insisted that it was OK because the children chose the name then she would probably be disciplined or lose her job - even in the UK or US. It also raises interesing insights about the way toys are viewed in different countries - in the UK we are culturally quite sentimental about teddy bears and give them human characteristics and view them as a representation of a person, whereas in other cultures a teddy could be viewed just as a representation of a real bear, and played with differently. In Islamic religion using the name of the most important prophet for a 'lesser being' like a dog or bear is considered to be insulting, but Christians do the same but aren't as explicit about it. Anyone have a dog called God? What do you, or anyone else, think about these types of considerations?

[keepersdaughter]

I just caught this on the news here last night and am appalled like everyone else. I do think it naievety and lack of judgement on the part of the teacher. But barbaric on the part of the country involved for considering such action. Apparently the teacher asked the children to name the teddy and they picked Mohamed because of a boy in the class of the same name. Seems innocent enough, but in light of all the sensitivity and awareness of certain religious protocols, she should have used some common sense. When living in another country you have to be very sensitive to cultural and particularly religious differences. Having said that, I do get very frustrated when I hear of what's going on at home (UK) when everyone is seemingly embraced with open arms, but it seems like Britains own heritage is being treated like something less than everyone else's, embarrassed or wrong even to stand up and say 'You're welcome here, this is how WE do things here, we respect you, please respect us,' When we lived in Italy we were given a brief orientation on certain customs, for example if you are fortunate enough to be invited to someones home, NEVER take crysanthamums, they are considered flowers of death and it would be like handing someone a wreath!. You can't be expected to know every small custom or whatever. However, when going to a a country with extreme religious customs and rules you really need to think twice.

[eleanor2]

jazz i think you would be surprised.our laws protect ethnic minorities and there religion more than us.jesus and God are mocked and ridiculed endlessly in the media.even if we all complain who feel insulted and sometimes there is a massive out cry.like that jerry springer thing.they are still allowed to carry on.as a christian.i could be imprisonned my property confiscated the lot in a different country.my life would even be in danger.dont think for a minute we would be allowed to build churches at all.we respect other peoples religions in this country. that teacher probably went to help the poor .if she had known there was a strict punishment she would not have named it. even the children didn't know they couldn't call it mohammed.so is it a new law to promote muslim superiority over the west and our culture.

[Pippa]

I think the teacher was naive in the extreme, surely she must have undertaken some training before going to a Muslim country. Possibly the Sudan Gov. are highlighting this incident to retaliate over the western countries responses to Dafur. Nut and sledgehammer situation really.

[jazzactivist]

Hi all, I think the UK is still dominated by Christian religion so that it has become part of our culture that no-one would consider calling a child's teddy bear Jesus or God. Maybe other people know differently? People who have different religious or belief systems to the norm of a country are often persecuted, and also people who don't subscribe to any organised religion. Look how the author who wrote The God Delusion was vilified in most of the UK press. We do have anti-blasphemy laws which can be used in the case of any religion, and there was huge outcry when they were introduced, but they still were. I agree with Pippa that this could be an example case for the Sudanese government as a response to Darfur. It must be very stressful for Gillian Gibbons, but a teacher who is responsible for young minds and lives should have been much more aware of the situation. Sometimes people just do charitable acts out of goodwill, but it isn't enough as good sense is required too. I hope that she gets back safely to have a good think about it, along with other teachers.

[Crocus]

We've been watching this case on Sky News and it's a bit of mixed emotions I think. When working in a foreign country, I think one must really take to heart their culture, their religious beliefs, and familiarise yourself with that country's law. Perhaps she was naive to go along with the name of the teddy and maybe could've suggested a more "neutral" and accepted name in Sudan.
I actually do feel sorry for her.

[eleanor2]

just read the paper.in sudan it is common for males to be named mohammed.in england we often call bears familiar names.thats what those children and the teacher were doing.i would just like to point out in some countries you are not just persecuted for being a christian.you are persecuted for not following the state religion.

[lily]

I understand that the name was chosen by the children and that many of the boys are caled Mohammed. Don't think there are any boys in the UK called Jesus- but I think this is a name that is given in some continental countries?
I feel very sorry for the lady and her family in the UK, who are reported to be too afraid for her to do more than give very basic statements to the press. Wonder if it would have been the same reaction if it had been a male teacher?

[Oola]

I wonder why children are allowed to be named after the prophet Mohammed, but not something as unoffensive as a teddy bear. Yes you're right lily, Jesus (pronounced Hey-zus) is a fairly common name Spain and latin american countries I think.

I think the problem here is partly that she should have been more gemmed up on the laws of the country - but also the laws themselves. I think the prophet Mohammed could have coped with a teddy bear having the same name as him, and I do believe a lot of the reaction is completely over the top. The 'crime' does not fit the punishment at all. There seems to be no room for honest mistakes. It might be that there is some anger directed towards westerners too, but I can't second guess people.

I have seen a sharia law trial undertaken, and I have to say it was a shambles. A man was accused of stealing from the back of a lorry in Nigeria. He said he didn't do it, that he just took what had fallen. Despite no witnesses to say that he did steal the items, and no other evidence, the judge still sentenced him to 15 lashes and a fine. There is also the case of a woman that was travelling with a man in a car, and the car was ambushed and both people were raped. Although the rapists were taken to court, the woman was then sentenced to 100 lashes (I think) for being out with a man on her own. Sometimes I think that such practices as whipping and public hanging have no place in a modern world that is crying out for peace and humanity. The human race has to move on from brutality and barbarous acts, but people confuse 'tradition' and 'culture' with outmoded practices (i.e. female genital mutilaton) under the guise of religion and justice.

[jazzactivist]

This is turning into a really interesting debate with everyone's views - much appreciated. You all know how I like a good debate! I agree that punishments such as those described aren't acceptable in modern times, in any country. And Gillian is probably being treated more harshly because she is a woman, which isn't right either. But the whole point is that a teddy bear isn't neutral, it is a toy which represents a bear. Calling a human the same name as a prophet (or Jesus) is acceptable because we are considered to be a higher life form than animals, with a soul and the ability to take on some of the best qualities of the deity etc. (not my own view!), so calling an inanimate representation of an animal after a prophet is considered to be offensive - making a mockery. And teaching young children to do so, even inadvertently, in their own country is an even more sensitive issue. Although there seems to be a huge backlash in the UK against the indigenous population having to learn about different cultures and faiths in multicultural Britian, it seems to me that this incident shows how important it is. It isn't sensible to just go to another country and export what might be considered to be good practice in the UK without a thought for whether this would be good practice elsewhere. The imposition of a 'British Empire' type attitude has led directly to a great deal of trouble throughout history, especially in education. I know that teachers feel over burdened with all the extra training that they have to do, but compulsory diversity training might be worthwhile. Should anyone who doesn't have a good understanding of societies be let loose to work with people?

[eleanor2]

jazz just a point.is there some hypochrisy in this situation. a british teacher earns 10 times more than a sudanese teacher i would have thought.why have they employed a british teacher.was she there because she was euroean.to teach english language or even customs.if they dont want english customs they shouldn't have employed an english person. lets face it if we had a doll or teddy bear named after us.we would be a famous person.

[Oola]

I know that she was probably unprepared and should take some responsibility for the naming incident, but the court and the people (people in crowds generally is not good where religion is concerned, I think) - or the baying crowds - seemed to ignore the fact that she genuinely was a bit ignorant. Yes she should have educated herself more, and she has really learnt her lesson, and taught others, the hard way.

There seemed to be a huge amount of paranoia surrounding this case, it was turned into something far worse than the actual incident, in my eyes. What are they so afraid of? Why make such a spectacle? If they believe that they will be judged on their actions, why do they feel the need to make a point of punishing someone with violent acts?

I think she was being made an example of and many were opportunistic in their attempts to highlight the ignorance and blasphemous nature of what they might consider to be 'infidels'. I think much of this comes from ignorance (which is prevalent in all hardline religious individuals and communities where tolerance, rationality and understanding is not exercised) and a lack of tolerance, and fear. The Muslim Council of Britain didn't seem to get very involved, despite their moderate (what I consider to be common sense) view that the possible punishments (now set to 15 days in jail) were too harsh. I think if they want to help portray Islam properly then they could have made more of a point. Islam means 'peace'. I believe that those who follow this idea of peace represent Islam in the sense that it was meant to be. In my mind, sharia law does Islam no favours in conveying it as a religion of peace when it will allow such gruesome, violent and disgusting practices such as public beheadings, lashes (one British man received 50 lashes in 2000 and said he didn't know the body could tolerate such pain, yet some can receive 500 lashes), public amputations, public hangings etc. This to me is not religion, but a cultural difference that belongs in the past and has mingled in to become part of what some people believe to be the religion. There is so much difference between religion, its associated rituals and faith.

I feel the same about the death penalty in the USA - how a country that puts its trust in God can then 'play' God by taking the life of someone as 'justice' just does not add up. I think when you mix something that holds as much passion as religion (but not always compassion) and politics and justice, then things become very complicated. Quakers (Christians) will not swear on the Bible, because they believe that you should not lie, and therefore do not need to show that you are telling the truth, because it's just what you do.

Ultimately, if you believe that you will be judged by your God, then perhaps having a more objective justice and legal system allows for rational and appropriate sentencing. A society or community can be founded on principles of their faith, and the daily routine and actions can be determined by these principles, but religion can be interpreted in so many different ways and degrees, and I think therein lies the problem and the solution when the deeply religious run the state. I am not against religion having an influence in social or political affairs- I believe in God and Jesus and the power of nature - but I do have a problem when people in power take a hardline approach and have no room for tolerance and compassion. It only sets a bad example to their people of how to deal with situations such as the one that has arisen.

Going slightly off topic there on a ramble - but an interesting question is I wonder what the children have learnt from this whole affair?

[eleanor2]

it sounds to me that they all must live in fear to some degree.i believe in punishment for a crime.how else do we have order and protect the vulnerable.this punishment does not befit the crime.i think they are making a statement to the west.they think we are soft on our people.especially the power our women have.they would have those at the top ruling the people in subjugation.

[jazzactivist]

Hi Oola, what an excellent contribution to this thread. I agree with both you and Eleanor that Sharia Law is brutal, and doesn't do the Islamic religion any favours. Inhumane punishments for crimes, including the US death penalty, belong in medieval times and shouldn't be part of a civilised modern world. Women, and anyone who lives their life slightly differently to the norm are especially vulnerable. I think that type of legal system, and the way that it has been portrayed in the press here, is stoking the fires of anti-Muslim feeling in Britain. So that people can feel justified in their racism by pointing out how extreme the Islamic faith can be if allowed free development. I am not religious at all, and don't believe in any deity, only in the ability of human beings to create a better world for everyone if we want to. I think that it is easy for people who live in a 'Christian' country to believe that our way of life and structural systems are right, and that any other religion or system must be, at best, misguided. However, Islam is at heart a peaceful religion and the Christian religion has also been known to inflict terrible injustices on people around the world. Both have basically the same values, and both are often misused.

I think that it is a shame that Gillian Gibbons has now been sentenced for her 'crime', but at least she will only be imprisoned for 10 days, most probably kept in the police cells rather than sent to a prison. I hope that the British foreign office will guard her and visit every day to make sure that she is not subjected to any mistreatment while imprisoned. Like you, Oola, I think that it is more than enough punishment for the deed. Hopefully, it won't fuel more of a British imperialist mentality here as that would play exactly into the hands of the Sudanese government's idea of Britain.

[Oola]

Just seen on the news that some Sudanese people are calling for the execution of Gillian Gibbons. I'm sorry but I cannot see how they can possibly think that that is a rational idea.

[jazzactivist]

I agree, Oola, it is really outrageous, and is only likely to fan the flames of racism here too as people retaliate to the news. On the radio news it said that the protesters are only a couple of hundred extremists, so the majority either don't feel so strongly about it, or the marchers have been put up to it. It must be very scary for her. Poor woman, I bet that she wishes that she had forgotten about inclusive UK teaching practice techniques and just called the d*** bear "Edward"! Is there any way that we could set up an email thread of support for her on RM and get it sent to her lawyer or the British consulate in Sudan? Although I think that Gillian Gibbons was a bit insensitive and globally unaware to be teacher in a different country, I don't like the thought of her suffering in a prison listening to calls for her execution and thinking that other women don't care about her plight.

[eleanor2]

i dont swear but i feel like it when i have just heard you say they are calling for her death sentance.it is absolutley pathetic.i dont think it is just about her.i think it is hatred for the west in general.they like to keep their people subjugated.our liberality does not fit in.look at honour killings of their own daughters.there is just two absolute extremes.our worlds just dont mix.

[lily]

Thanks for confirming my thought that Jesus is used as a name in some continental countries- nice to know I'm not imagining these things.
There is an interesting letter in today's Times- criticising radical islam, by the name written by a moderate moslem. Refreshing to learn they don't all have such radical views. The problem is it is always the extremists who hit the headlines, and this causes racial hatred and tension in the UK.
My personal view is that much of the radical doctrine is based on a fear of women and the desire to subjugate them at all costs.

[jazzactivist]

A lot of African countries have good reason to hate the West though, Eleanor. Not everyone thinks that the British, French and German Empires brought enlightenment, education and prosperity to their countries. The British Empire, which I know more about than the others, completely pillaged every country that it colonised and subjugated most of their indigenous people into slavery, poverty and into adopting an imposed colonial culture. Most of our relative wealth and independence is due to the profits of that behaviour, it used Christian religion and British education, law and order and democratic systems to do it too. Many African countries were proud and rich, but have never recovered from being Western colonies. That type of 'race memory' runs deep, so it is no wonder that they are keen not to let the same thing happen again. Of course, African countries also acted this way between themselves, but not to the thorough extent that the West did it. It may seem a harsh view, and I am not anti-British as I generally enjoy living here, but I think that being brought up in an ex-British colony throws a different light on our history, and many people in the UK don't seem to think very critically about why some countries don't value our involvement in their affairs.

Nonetheless, what is happening in Sudan in the name of Islam is totally unacceptable, as it involves cruelty and repression, and the persecution of a woman. Most Muslims are moderate in the same way as most Christians are, but there are always some in any religion or other belief system that hold extreme views, and if a government places more value on that type of thinking more people will be led into it.

[eleanor2]

i dont think it is anything to do with british colonizing countries. i think it is about the different ways our countries are run. it goes back thousands of years. i was only reading esther in the bible today funnily.king xxerxes queen refused to come in to him.his advisers told him that if he didn't punish her. women over all his kingdoms would disobey the men. i am not saying this from a religious point of view.but westerners are seen as liberal people.their women have to much power.we dont agree with them.they dont agree with us. in London muslim extremists openly preach against our western culture.

[Katelb]

I wonder how the parents of the little boy whose teddy it is feel about all this which to my tiny mind has been blown up out of all proportion.I wonder if they were offended that their son should want to use his own name for his teddy.
I am sorry for the teacher and I'm sure it was all a completely innocent mistake,and I feel that the authorities out there have tended to use the issue politically.We have given a considerable amount of aid to the Sudan and I feel they have been in danger of biting the hand that's fed them.
Hopefully she will soon be on her way home,let us hope there is no further harm done.

[eleanor2]

good news.that the teacher is home safe and well with her family

[sunflower]

Oh, I missed this discussion. I agree with you Jazzactivist. She should have known the customs more and respected them. Furthermore, as a Christian I would'nt call a teddy Jesus...just not right somehow. However, in Spain, there are alot of little Jesus' running about!!! We have to respect one another's culture.....at the same time expecting respect for our own.

[Ivy]

A German minister who is a Muslim himself said that Mohamed was a very popular name in all Muslim countries.
If parents call their son Mohamed and he turns out to become a thief and someone says "Mohamed is a thief " no one would say he was insulting Muslim culture... so I do not really understand the fuss. By the way the name Jesus is a very popular boys name in countries like Spain.

[jazzactivist]

Hi Ivy, it is acceptable to call a child by the name Mohammed or Jesus, as people can embody some of the best aspects of the religious prophet, and can strive to attain the rest of their qualities. Calling a child by that name implies hope that they will live a good life. Whereas calling an animal or toy by the same name is making a mockery, as in many religions, Christian too, animals and toys are not viewed as having the same spiritual qualities as humans, so it can be offensive. I still haven't heard of any animals or toys called Jesus or God... perhaps I should try it if I get another dog once my poor old one passes on, but I am a bit too scared of the potential backlash.