HOW DO WE SEE FOOD?

[Crocus]

This is a bit of a long post, but it's something which bothers me quite a lot, and to which I have quite a few questions in my mind.

As we all know, food is needed tot sustain our bodies. Just everyday basic food. Which brings about the question: what is basic food? As we are aware, meat (poultry, pork and red meat) fish, dairy, vegetables, fruit and grains .

Another question which came to mind is how these food were prepared and eaten ages ago. Surely no fancy food as we know it today was available? Surely no fine dining was available? Just basic honest food prepared in probably very basic manner. Afterall, it was to fulfill a basic need, that of hunger.

All of this came to my mind when watching a food program where egg white had to be whisked. Not in a pyrex bowl, not in a plastic bowl for that matter, but in a copper bowl. With a whisk. Why? Because the meringues has got to be “perfect” . According to who? I thought. Also a certain country’s oysters couldn’t be used, because “it’s a bit to gritty”. Couldn't it be given another thorough wash? This was in a very fancy restaurant in a very well-known, very expensive hotel in the Middle-East. According to who I once again asked myself.

Food preparation in modern times has become a science in it's own I think, especially in restaurants the world over. It HAS to be the best fish, the best meat, the best product available to man. Do we ever think what it takes to produce the best? Do we ever think of how the world’s food resources are stretched to the utmost of limits just to satisfy the taste buds of people – not thinking about nations who die of hunger every single day? We are prepared to pay large amounts of money for a tiny bit and 'apparantly' tasty food on a lovely plate prepared for visual dining, topped with a drop of this and sprig of that in a fancy restaurant somewhere. Should we be prepared to do this? If you take a child somewhere in Africa who is, and has to be satisfied with a few grains of wheat, and you take that same wheat, prepare it in the best circumstances in the best soil available and eventually prepare it in such a way to produce an excellent dish in the world’s best restaurants by the best chefs, for a huge amount ……. what is the difference?

The difference is how people apply their minds to food. It’s almost as if many people, especially those who are used to dining out in the best places available, can’t think basic anymore. If there’s croutons in the salad which the chef put on his menu and someone doesn’t like it, the world turns upside down because it’s “wrong” and “I don’t like it”. Why is it wrong? Who said it’s wrong, or right? Why is it better to whisk egg whites in a copper bowl? Does it make such a big difference to the taste and appearance? And if it does, should it matter so much? Would it bring the world to a standstill?

Isn’t because the taste of food and how it’s prepared, has become such a science, a fashion item, and people’s tastebuds forgot about just normal everyday basic tastes and eating, that they are prepared to pay a huge amount of money because of “so-called the best” dish, prepared by say a well-known chef? Or is it because of plain and simple greed? That if I prepare fish in this way, and not that way, I can add a few Dollars or Pounds or Rands, whatever, more to that dish?

Of course it’s nice to have dinner at a lovely restaurant. We all like to do it once in a while. The question is what are we prepared to pay just because of this, that and the other, and I really think that we as a people are taking things to far sometimes. Have tastebus and tasting minds been trained to such a level that "it" can't differentiate between "basic", "has to be perfect", the restaurant and chef anymore?

It must have some impact on the world's resources to feed this way of thinking, surely?xxx

[Pippa]

What a wonderful post Crocus. I agree entirely with you about the fine dining aspect of food and peoples expectations. I think basic foods are, rice, vegetables, pulses and fruit, all reasonably priced and nutricous (sorry cannot spell this morning). There is so much food snobbery, particularly amongst the middle and upper classes, who probably go on holiday to places like India or Africa but just do not get how the local population eat, separated in their grand hotels and eating establishments as they are. I also think there is a difference between good basic food and cheap food. It is so difficult to know where something has come from or how it was grown. I don't think organic food is necessarily better for you but on the other hand you do not want something sprayed with lord know what. A friend who used to farm says always to use organic milk as antibiotics used on animals can leach into the milk, of course organic herds do not have antib. used on them. It is finding a good balance, it stands to reason that cheap frozen pizzas and pies are not going to contain anything that will provide you with any nutrients and this is my beef! with cheap supermarkets, the person producing the food must be doing it for pennies (ex batt hens go into chicken pies and curries etc) so who would want to eat that when with a little imagination you can make a good meal with pasta, veg. or an omlette which I always think is the ideal convenience food (eggs that is). I think people are food snobs the same way they are about cars and clothes, just see it as a way of climlbing the social ladder. Food is for hunger, nurishment and comfort, it is just so wrong that we have far too much in the West.

[dragonfly]

I agree with you both. I don't understand the need to mess about with food and have lots of fancy, fiddley food. I think expensive restuarants are a fashion where rich folk like to go to be different. I like good basic meals and while we are both working we eat out a lot and we very often get a very good and filling meal for less than £15 for both of us, and sometimes that includes a glass of wine, so we are not extravagant. I buy home grown and organic when I can and am planning on growing a lot of my own next year and would even keep chickens if I could. I think cheap supermarket food is just the rubbish from other food industries and would not buy it and saw a programme on TV that for a few extra pence they could make it nutrious, so feel sorry for people on a low income.

[Crocus]

Hi Pippa, thanks! I've been thinking about this for quite a long time now and each and every time I watch a food program all these questions come to mind again. I'm not saying that one can't enjoy fine dining or just a nice night out, but the extent chefs go to to impress and then ask a huge amount of money for which sometimes seems to not a lot on your plate, I think is not quite right.

I totally agree with you on food snobs. I've noticed this once again in a food program which is on telly at this stage and people will literally turn the restaurant upside if there's not enough salt or sugar in a dish! My goodness, no one's taste is the same so what will it matter if she had to sprinkle over a bit more salt! To go off like she did made me a bit angry. Then also the fact "you can't serve this with that". Who said so - who decided this and now has to be the norm?

We go to a insignificant little take away fish shop at a local seaside town. You can either take away or sit outside in the sun/shade and you eat from paper plates with plastic knives and forks because it's actually a take away shop. But, it's the best fish I've had anywhere. If this piece of fish had to be prepared in a high class restaurant you most probably have to pay 5 times the amount.

I guess what I want to say through all of this is there are people the world over dying of hunger everyday, people all over the world who can just literally scrape enough together to eat, but in the meantime, all over the world in luxurious hotels and restaurants with highly paid chefs, there are people who moan and groan about the most insignificant things regarding food because they're paying huge amounts of money for it. That's exactly where the problem lies I think. Because I'm prepared to pay X amount for a bit of food beautifully prepared on a lovely plate, chefs go to any lenghts to get the best from everything available anywhere. Because of this, people again are prepared to pay for it. The one aspect drives the other and who's going to break this food snobbery circle I wonder? xxx

[jazzactivist]

A really interesting thread, crocus, and I agree with you that what makes good food is vastly different from place to place, and between social groups and largely depends on income. Experimenting with preparation, taste, how it looks on the plate etc are all luxuries in comparsion with poor people's need for enough nutritious food to stay alive. Maybe we should start dividing food into an Absolute meal or a Relative meal, as we do for poverty?

I love top quality food that is well prepared and presented, and try to do this at home too. I think that there is a big difference in nutrition and taste between foods that are mass produced in the quickest and cheapest way to sell cheaply, and food that has been grown and produced under very good conditions. Of course, all food should be produced that way, but it is more expensive and while there are people who won't / can't pay more for their food then some of it will be sub-standard and no matter how it is cooked it will always taste that way. OH and I have reached a stage through eating mainly organic, locally produced food for the past few years that we can tell instantly if an ingredient in a restaurant meal has been bought from a supermarket. It lacks the robust taste and texture of carefully grown and harvested food.

To me, the most interesting deveopment in recent times is the return to straightforward cooking and eating using very high quality, plain ingredients. Many of the top restaurants and chefs do this and, of course, they are not teaching many grandma's or small local cafes anything that they don't already know. I don't think that it is snobbish to like and want good quality food that is well prepared and presented, whatever your income, and wish that more people in the UK would want to eat it so that the overall quality would improve.

[Crocus]

Hi Jazz, for me it's about the fact that many people the world over are only to happy to have the most basics of food prepared in the most basic way, without any 'fidgeting' about, and probably not even having enough. At the same time people will sit in restaurants, moan about a crouton in the salad which they don't like, or this or that or the other just for the sake of "I can moan because I'm paying". Because of this mindset, chefs will go to the lengths and depths of the earth, pay huge amounts for say a certain type of fish or whatever to put on the table for people who are not satisfied with anything less than the utmost best. Again because of what chefs are prepared to do to put on your plate, people are getting more and more "finnicky" about what's on their plate, how it looks etc. To me it's a vicious circle of I want and you must supply, and I will supply as long as you pay.

Good quality food I think we all want and need probably, but what does it take to produce enough good quality food for the billions of people?

In the olden days planting, harvesting etc. were done by hand and probably an oxen or two. Nations grew bigger, more food was needed, so the machine (of any kind) had to be developed to "cater" for growing nations. I think one aspect played, still playes, into the hand of the other and where we are today is quite frightening I think regarding food production. Which is why all these questions came to my mind of many people only being satisfied with the very best when it comes to dining or moan about the slightest thing they don't like just because they're paying for it. It's as if there's no tolerance if it's not absolutely 100% perfect to their particular taste, no willingness not to moan.

There's an enormous gap between how these two groups of people think about food, how it must be presented and how it has to taste. xxx

[Ivy]

Eating properly high quality food locally grown and/or organically grown is the best policy against mass production.Plus it is the best way to support local farmers. The consumer is the one who decides. I can choose if I buy a ready made meal with ingredients of unknown origins or f I take the time and some fresh ingredients to make a potato soup. If there is no market for crap food than nobody will produce it. I know I am probably outing myself as being middle class again but by eating cheap food I do not help anybody in the third world to feed their children.
I do not have to eat strawberry pavlova in January ( at least when I am in Germany, for SA this may be the best time) but I do not wish to eat porridge 3x a day like the old Germans either. I think food is also a mirror of culture and look what a sub standard culture we have.

[Crocus]

Hi Jazz, for me it's about the fact that many people the world over are only to happy to have the most basics of food prepared in the most basic way, without any 'fidgeting' about, and probably not even having enough. At the same time people will sit in restaurants, moan about a crouton in the salad which they don't like, or this or that or the other just for the sake of "I can moan because I'm paying". Because of this mindset, chefs will go to the lengths and depths of the earth, pay huge amounts for say a certain type of fish or whatever to put on the table for people who are not satisfied with anything less than the utmost best. Again because of what chefs are prepared to do to put on your plate, people are getting more and more "finnicky" about what's on their plate, how it looks etc. To me it's a vicious circle of I want and you must supply, and I will supply as long as you pay.

Good quality food I think we all want and need probably, but what does it take to produce enough good quality food for the billions of people?

In the olden days planting, harvesting etc. were done by hand and probably an oxen or two. Nations grew bigger, more food was needed, so the machine (of any kind) had to be developed to "cater" for growing nations. I think one aspect played, still playes, into the hand of the other and where we are today is quite frightening I think regarding food production. Which is why all these questions came to my mind of many people only being satisfied with the very best when it comes to dining or moan about the slightest thing they don't like. There's an enormous gap between how these two groups of people think about food, how it must be presented and how it has to taste. xxx

[Crocus]

Hi Ivy, yes I agree that it's also cultural based probably, but even in different cultures you will get those who are quite happy with what they have and don't have, and those who would pay any amount to say "I had dinner at so and so, had this or that, prepared by so and so" I think. Culture actually follows survival and instinct because food is a basic human need.


Food is one of the "soothing" aspects of life and tastes have developed enormously as well as the way food is prepared and presented, and it has also grown into an enormous money making aspect of life during this development of tastes to satisfy customers. xx

[jazzactivist]

I think that there should be a basic requirement for good quality, well produced and prepared food the world over - to meet the basic human need. Each meal should consist of a balanced diet and take culture into consideration. There is no limit to excess if people have the money to pay for it, and that is the problem with having an advanced capitalist economy - a few people have everything that they want and more, and a vast majority don't have enough of what they need.

I think that there is nothing better than nutritious food cooked well, whether that is vegetable soup, local fish or rice and pulses. You are right, crocus, that everything else is just fancy indulgence, but a subsistence diet of the same foods isn't good for anyone's health or mind. How food is prepared is just as important was what is in it, and not everyone knows what is best for themselves. In the past in the UK a good meal was considered to be a big, cheap piece of over-cooked meat, over-cooked potatoes and a small amount of limp over-cooked veg covered in thick gravy, with a suet pudding afterwards. This kept people's stomachs full, but was really bad for their health. Likewise, a diet of barbequed meat and mielie meal pap didn't do South African people any good either. I think that you are right about the cycle of demand becoming ever more excessive, but we need to be careful about promoting the idea that cheap food equals good food. If this approach shows me up as middle class, like you Ivy, then so be it!

[Crocus]

I totally agree with you Jazz that cheap food does not always equal good food. The comparison I'm trying to draw here is how different people approach food. Some are happy for it to be a nutritious substance to the body, others again must have the best and most expensive food all the time because of someone somewhere said this or that is how food HAS to be prepared, and customers believe it, no matter what because it may suit them, because their tastebus and tasting minds have been trained as such, even down to whether a crouton is allowed on salad or not.

There's nothing wrong with fine dining, it's an uplifting experience for sure, but I just don't like the way people will critisize the slightest thing just because it's fine dining. xxx

[eleanor2]

the best food i can eat is food i have grown or forraged from the land.theres nothing like picking,cooking and eating fresh off the land food.only organic for me where possible.

[souter girl]

Has anybody ever been to a "Third World supper" ? You buy a ticket and you get allocated a ticket at random when you arrive and either sit down to typical Western meal, usually a casserole or shepherd's pie, lasagne etc, but a good plateful, OR you get a small bowl of rice.The idea is that it is totally random where we are born in the world and whether or not we get enough to eat. It raises funds for Christian Aid Week and no-one has ever complained even if they have had to top-up at the chippie on the way home!

[dragonfly]

I have not heard of that Soutergirl. It sounds like a good idea to raise funds even though I know I would get the rice dish and I can’t stand rice.

[Crocus]

It is quite a lovely idea, and I won't mind the rice bowl as I again quite love rice. My sister also can't stand even the smell of rise, let alone eating it. x