Moderating Threads - Thought for the Day

[Primrose]

Dear Crocus and Oola

I have not posted my thoughts directly onto the Jade Goody thread as I did not think it appropriate. I too have given this post some thought and wondered if the moderators can help a little. For example I did write in one of my posts -

I think this thread has deviated from what the original question was and maybe should be split into one called Religion. Then RM'ers can really go to town because I think debate is healthy especially when you have read so much on different beliefs.

Clunk actually put in a sub heading to his message -

'What is Christianity?'

So maybe once the post starts to go completely off the point and a discussion starts that has, my opinion only, actually deviated from the original question then it should be moved to a new thread of the Moderators choice and not say deleted completely.

There has to be an opportunity for a good exhange of views but it should not be at the expense of maybe making some contributors feel it is time to 'drop out'.

Yesterday Henny did post and I quote -

'It is interesting to look at the list of members and see how many have joined but not posted - which begs to me begs the question why'

My Great Grandad used to say never argue about politics or religion - well - maybe there was a reason and how this thread developed maybe why this was said.

So I am not saying stop the thread I am saying when it becomes 'uncomfortable' and maybe 'over the top' for a visitor (or even an existing RM'er) to read e.g. the thread title and content has become side stepped and/or maybe can be interpretted the wrong way - then maybe it needs adjusting.

Open discussion is good but maybe can be difficult to manage but I think attracting newcomers, and keeping existing, is paramount to enable more diversity.

Keep up the good work girls!

[Crocus]

Hi Primrose, thanks for your thoughts and this is exactly the point where we want to be. However, due to the utmost diversity of members it's sometimes quite difficult to maintain a happy medium. What makes it easy, is when members in their conversation almost steer the topic so that very little conflict could arise from it without compromising themselves, other members or the site.

When a topic like the one you refer to develop different angles, it is almost inevitable that that is exactly what happens. For example christianity came to discussion because of Jade's decision and once again it was inevitable that it would take a different course.
I, and I'm sure Oola as well, would very much like the members to "moderate" themselves.

Which is why I actually said this in a posting on the Jade thread:

"I've been thinking about the comments on this thread quite a lot in the past few days, and the fact that we have different beliefs, views and emotions. But, to each and everyone, her/his belief is important for own reasons. I think it was quite good to hear how everyone feels, and I think everyone here respects the other's belief and feelings, something which is also very important to all of us. Also that none of us can force our personal belief onto someone else.

It's (christianity) a complex, difficult and deep felt topic and something which doesn't get discussed a lot for good reasons too, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. "

I hope this helps Primrose? xx

[Primrose]

Thank you Crocus

I think they say 'I beg to differ'. I think this site needs a moderator for the points I mentioned.

To answer your point - 'I, and I'm sure Oola as well, would very much like the members to "moderate" themselves.'

Surely in any debate there is someone who has to be there to keep order?

As you say 'For example Christianity came to discussion because of Jade's decision and once again it was inevitable that it would take a different course.'

Which brings me back to the role of moderator - once a Thread takes a different course it is my opinion that the moderator starts a new thread if the subject e.g. Christianity becomes the 'over riding' discussion.

This type of action by the moderator allows RM's who do not want to join the 'pack' to continue discussing the thread in the wider context.

It also allows those that can contribute, with knowledge, of the subject in this case Christianity to have an open forum to exchange their views and debate more in depth under a NEW thread heading.

[dinger]

Hi Crocus I have to agree with the points Primrose has made. I believe when certain people get on to the subject of religion it can and does get dangerous due to the fact it can offend and upset others. I believe this is a private thing and I won't discuss my feelings at all on this only if I take offence at what is said as I did on one of the threads. Everyone are entitled to believe what gives them the greatest comfort in their lives but I don't think any religion is meant to offend others if kept in the right place. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say .I think by all means let those who wish to discuss it do so but on a seperate topic as Primrose suggests. No offence is intended to anyone it is just my point of view.

[Crocus]

Hi Dinger, thanks for your input on this. The reason why christianity and religion got to be discussed on Jade's thread was because it got so intertwined once the fact that she and her boys were christened, got mentioned. Although a private matter, christianity/religion does get discussed sometimes, because it forms part of one's very being, no matter what one beliefs, it's part of life for many. I don't think anyone forced his/her belief onto anyone else, everyone actually showed respect for other members' views, while also sharing their own feelings and views, as I've said, because Jade's christening got mentioned. I hope this explains it a bit?

Jade's thread has calmed down quite a bit regarding religion as such I think, and I also think most which could be said about religion on this thread, has probably been said. xx

[Primrose]

Thank you again for your opinion Crocus but I am going to still keep to my own thoughts on this - the role of a moderator.

I am not saying anyone forced his/her belief onto anyone else. What I am saying is when a thread develops as it did, again only my opinion, it would benefit from being transferred into a debating topic.

Surely there would be no harm in the moderator stepping in and saying this debate has developed into a second Thread e.g Religion. Stating, for example, that the reason being to enable those that wish to discuss their views in more depth a new Thread has been allocated.

I know the Christening, for Jade and her boys, once mentioned would need comment but once it goes into such depth I was wondering where the moderator was in all this.

In fact if I knew David Attenborough personally I would have phoned him and asked if he could contribute. Because I really do not think it is right, again only my opinion, to think that members can moderate themselves on subjects such as Religion or Politics especially when the number of members are so small.

[Crocus]

Hi Primrose, thanks. X

[dinger]

As this topic has cropped up many times before and did so on C L which caused bad feeling with some of the members there I do still think religion should have it's own place. I do understand how it came about with Jades christening but then too many other beliefs were expressed.

[jazzactivist]

I appreciate the role of the moderators and think that in this case they have done the right thing. Life would be very bland if we couldn't debate topics that are controversial, though. The old idea of never discussing politics or religion made sure that no-one put forward different views within their families and communities, and it kept many people stuck and silent. We are quite a small group on RM and have been 'together' for quite a long time now so know one another's differences and can more or less anticipate the perspective that each would take. To me, it seems that we should be able to discuss these things without anyone taking offence and welcome everyone's contribution.

[souter girl]

I agree that we should be able to discuss potentially contentious issues, but feel that a degree of "moderation" - by ourselves is called for, and that we should not, as has happened, but not by present company, get "personal" or sink to nit-picking. When I have been aware of this I have pm'd crocus for advice and if necessary action. Just as I hope none of us would be offensive to a friend's face, however heated the discussion, we don't do it on line - and I repeat, WE don't, but some have and I would support Crocus or Oola if they were to advise person or persons unknown to "moderate" their views!!! Who was it who said"I disagree with your views, but would defend to the death your right to express them" (or something like that?)

[Primrose]

Jazz

I quote from your posting two areas that I totaly agree with you on and please correct me if in my postings I have given the wrong impression.

I do not take offence by other people's views far from it. -

Life would be very bland if we couldn't debate topics that are controversial, though. The old idea of never discussing politics or religion made sure that no-one put forward different views within their families and communities, and it kept many people stuck and silent.

To me, it seems that we should be able to discuss these things without anyone taking offence and welcome everyone's contribution.

Where I am not in total agreement with is this -

We are quite a small group on RM and have been 'together' for quite a long time now so know one another's differences and can more or less anticipate the perspective that each would take.

I would prefer the members of RM to be many more and I sincerely hope it will grow. All I am saying is that I consider a degree of "moderation" can take place, if and when necessary, to allow a good debate to be identified and set up in it's own right when it becomes over powering. Then it will have it's own platform for all who wanted to contribute and it will not have interefered with the original Thread Heading.

Souter Girl

You feel comfortable when you have a query to PM Oola and Crocus and that suits you and I see no problem with that.

You also say and I quote :

I would support Crocus or Oola if they were to advise person or person unknown to "moderate" their views!!! Who was it who said" disagree with your views, but would defend to the death your right to express them" (or something like that?)

I too would support Crocus and Oola if they had to advise someone to moderate their views.

I too agree with 'defend to the death your right to express them' - BUT - in the right setting if it has the making of a long battle.

[dinger]

I don't object to anyone having a good discussion about anything and giving their views but do think religion can be a touchy subject so should be kept seperate for those who wish to give their views and talk of their own personal beliefs .

[sunflower]

Personally, once a religious debate came into the Jade Goody thread I became uncomfortable. NOT because Christian views were being aired....I myself am a Christian and love to have lively debates. But I felt as if Jade, the original focus became lost in a religious discussion......almost as if talking to one another accross her bed, but ignoring her. Yes, one could argue that it was because of her the discussion started. However, due to the circumstances.....she is a dying woman, I felt uncomfortable and felt the discussion insensitive. That is why I tried to pull back the discussion with sharing my Relative's feelings about Jade's pain. I kept thinking, if Jade were my relative, I would feel so upset that people were questioning her motives.
So it would have been helpful to have a Moderator to start a new thread on religion.

[dragonfly]

I am not religious but am happy to discuss it but think it should have its own thread for I know it can upset some people and I do not wish to upset anyone. That way anyone who is likely to take offence can avoid the discussion. Unfortunately I think the Jade thread continued just like a real conversation would even though it was obvious some people were getting upset. I think a few of us felt uncomfortable with that thread so didn’t get involved.

I don’t think it fair that the moderators have to intervene; I think we should moderate ourselves. If we go off topic and someone asks for it to be moved, we can and should move to another thread ourselves without involving the moderators. That way everyone is happy, those that want to continue the conversation that was started and those that want to take it in a different direction.

[Oola]

Hi everyone

I see where Primrose is coming from; obviously religion was an issue in the thread, and had a part to play in that discussion until it had run its course. But once a thread subject differs completely from the original thread starter/post title, it is time to move it on to a new thread. Likewise, if anybody feels that there should be a new thread, please feel free to post a new thread to continue a discussion on the new tangent, or advise either Crocus or myself if you feel the forum would benefit from a new thread.

[Primrose]

Thank you Oola

Crocus does a great job and it must be difficult at times to wear two hats.

Maybe I could have PM'ed either of you but sometimes it is good to not have to be the one to take it on yourself to 'run and tell teacher'.

So for me it would have been correct, in this instance, to have seen it moved by a moderator and the discussion continued under a new thread - decision made.

To me I see the problem for the moment, as I said before, can be the number of active members we currently have on RM.

Maybe we can moderate ourselves to a certain point but surely how the site can be viewed by an outsider, who happens to come in and look around, is very important.

Personally I think if the 'contributors', who can sometimes look like the majority of the active members, are in full flow and are so enjoying the discussion (as we all do) just need the moderator to say hang on a minute we are moving to another room/thread.

[Crocus]

Hi Primrose, your touching on the real aspects of moderation. The main question that arose regarding the Jade Goody thread, in hindsight, on what grounds should the moderator stop a conversation in order to accommodate everybody. There was no transgression of any forum rules. Like with anything in life, there are always multiple angles to a subject and it's necessary to accommodate everyone's valued opinion. No complaints or pm's were actually received regarding christianity while the discussion was in progress. Once again, thanks for your input. X