A Father at 13?

[Crocus]

Have you perhaps seen this on your news channels or heard it on the radio?
A thirteen year old boy and a 15 year old girl became parents 4 days ago.
Apparently they didn't tell their parents but when it became obvious she was pregnant, they had to spill the beans so to speak.

I've got a question or two in my mind on this. This boy is still a child himself, how will he be able to be a parent? He still needs looking after emotionally as well as physically, so how on earth will he be able to be a dad?
The same with the girl. She also needs looking after emotionally. How will she cope with the pressures of motherhood? Children of this age shouldn't have relationships I think, least of all sexual relationships.

Then probably a very naive comment from my side, I didn't really think that a 12 yeard old boy can father a child in any way (12 being the age the boy was when this baby was conceived).

What are your feelings and viewpoints on this?

[dinger]

I am horrified about this Crocus . I have got my grand-sons here at the moment they are12yrs old the age this boy was when the girl became pregnant. As I look at them I can't imagine how this could ever have been allowed to happen. They are no more than babies at this age themselves .What is going on for goodness sake.?

[jazzactivist]

I agree with you, crocus. I think that these young people are too young to be a couple, let alone have a sexual relationship and become parents. They are just children themselves with their whole lives ahead of them, but now some of whatever they might want to do will be limited by starting a family so young. Of course babies bring love and joy into your life, but only if they are planned and wanted and don't create resentment about what might have to be missed - like going out with friends, studying away from home, meeting a partner who is really suitable etc.

I really don't know what the best answer is to this problem of teenage sex and pregnancy. I think that it is a long term one that involves parents being parents and caring about what their teenage children get up to. Also, good contraceptive education, and even good sex education that focuses on the importance of romance and foreplay, but no penetrative sex. And also learning that it should be fun and exciting to be a child and be young and free, rather than grow up to be an adult too quickly. Teenage pregnancies aren't new, but fathering children when still a child is. To me, I always think that an early termination is the best option if the parents are too young to be in a position to independently look after themselves and a child.

[dragonfly]

I think it is very sad. If my son had done that I would be so ashamed of him and I would be ashamed of myself for not teaching him better. I don't believe it posible that a 13 year old has the knowledge to be a father, when much older people struggle. I think it is just a game to them and they don't realise the implications. Unless their parents help out with the baby (and they obviously weren't good parents to their son) the baby has no chance to grow up decent. I think being a parent is the hardest job in the world and we all make mistakes and our children arn't perfect but this defies belief. Who is going to pay for this, I guess the tax payers.

[Crocus]

Hi Jazz, About termination of the pregnancy, yes it also crossed my mind, although I'm not totally in favour of it. Thing is with this girl, she didn't say anything until she had too and by then it was to late. I just can't imagine having my dad only being 12 years older than me! It doesn't make sense. These kids experimented with sex, something they were'nt matured enough to do to my mind. Obviously physical yes, baby is the proof of that, but most definitely not psychologically. x

[souter girl]

Crocus I am so relieved that you too thought that a 12 year old boy could not father a baby!! As the mother of 3 girls I felt I must be naive or had something missing from my "birds and bees" lessons. But what a tragedy! Whatever were their parents doing not to realist what was going on? And also with the current hang-ups about paedophiles (and I do think as a society we seriously over-exaggerate some aspects of child protection) if that had been a 12 year old girl - would it have been child abuse?? Was it in any case?
And as for the long term prospects for this baby....well, I just hope there are some loving and more mature and sensible people in the family. Isn't it funny how we have had 2 cases of babies being born to dysfunctional parents in the news recently ?(i.e.the octuplets)

[Crocus]

Hi SG, It is quite strange yes the two cases you mentioned. Both unnatural, rare and strange in a lot of ways.

Me again only have boys but at 12 they were playing rugby, hockey, hide and seek with their friends, cards, their friends which they still have today were at our house most of the time, just being 12 year olds with no girls in sight.

I wonder whether the parents knew what went on between these two children because they only found out when the girl couldn't any longer hide it when started to show. This is actually a tragedy, because not only are two kids' lives now forced into adulthood, skipping adolescence (sp?) but what about the little baby? Goodness. The more I think about this, and the more I realise what actually happened here, the more it unsettles me. xx

[dinger]

I also read in the paper this week about another very young teenager who has already had one baby is now expecting triplets . Not the same father I might add.

[jazzactivist]

I agree with you about the risk of termination in this case, crocus. Any termination relies on the mother recognising and wanting to do it very early, otherwise it is too late for the health of both the foetus and the woman. Maybe in this case, fostering with contact with the biological parents would be useful, so that the child has a good start in life with more mature, sensible parents and then there is a phased return of the child to its biological parents when they are old enough to properly care for it.

The baby's father looked just a wee boy himself on the news, and didn't seem to understand what would be required to look after a baby. Quite an immature 12 I would say, and I am surprised too that a boy whose voice hasn't even broken yet could be sexually mature enough to father a child. Maybe there is more to this story than there seems? At least at 15 the young mum will have access to more peers in her position, but who will he have to talk with? It is against the law for a man over the age of 18 to have sex with a girl under the age of 16 and for a woman over the age of 18 to have sex with a boy under 16. However, as this couple are both underage then they are just classed as children and it isn't against the law. You never know though, they might get lots of support and end up being really good parents and their child have a happy life.

[Crocus]

Hi Jazz, the fact that the boy's voice hasn't even broken yet, emphasizes the fact how very immature in every way this boy actually was when this baby was conceived. What I also don't completely understand, why would a 14 year old girl have a sexual "relationship" with a boy younger than her?

[sunflower]

When the boy was interviewed this evening he was asked how he was going to cope financially, and his answer was.....what does that mean?
I believe it is time to empower children to say 'no' to intimate sexual activity and to change the culture that deems virginity as something shameful.

[Crocus]

I wonder whoever decided that virginity is something shameful. Peer Pressure perhaps? xx

[sunflower]

I really do'nt know Crocus, but young people today see it as a burden until they rid themselves of it. I remember several years ago an episode in the TV series Neighbours, where two girls were having a conversation. One of the girls was a virgin and they were talking about virginity as if it were a disease and something to get rid of. I think it is so sad and adults need to speak up.....not in a moralizing way, but rather in a positive way to turn this tide in our culture. To value their bodies as special and to realize there is a whole wealth of knowledge out there that is far more important than knowing sexual intimacy.

[Crocus]

Well this getting rid of a "burden" places a lot of extra burden on young people, young children it now seems, parents and governments I think. A much bigger burden than holding on to your virginity until you are emotionally mature for such a relationship.

[sunflower]

I totally agree with you. I think it is heartbreaking to think that young girls are uptight about their latest emotional tangle and wondering what to do about their pregnancy when, they should be enjoying school, creative activities and sport and planning their future. There is plenty of time for intimacy later on when they become adults.

[Crocus]

If only they would realise it Sunflower! It would take so much pressure away from those involved in the end. Why bother with stuff there's more than enough time for when they're much older and matured? But I guess that's exactly why we are having this conversation. They don't realise, and they give into pressure and they want to explore things for which they are not emotionally ready.

[dinger]

A doctor said in the paper today it is possible for boys from the age of 6yrs old to make a baby.
Once the girl reaches16 yrs old she is entitled to be given housing and full benefits . He can move in with her but she will have to claim for him as a child and be classed as his guardian untill he reaches working age. His mother will have to hand her benefits over if and when this happens. Crazy or what?

[dragonfly]

Its mad dinger.

I think part of the problem is lack of discipline. Children are allowed to please themselves today and like us they want to grow up to soon. If they get pregnant they are given all the privilages we have to work for thus making it seem as though they are doing something good not bad and they get paid for it (free house, money for furniture and enough money to live on). My children think I am old fashioned for having morals and principals and should get rid of them. I don't know how to get rid of them and don't want to anyway. I think we had it better than kids today because boys and the men we married had respect for us. Sorry for ranting on but this subject annoys me.

[Crocus]

Hi DF, I so agree with you on morals. We're also in the dogbox because of our morals and standards. And as you say, I won't know how to get rid of it as well. It means I will have to throw everything to the wind and down the drain what I've been taught, brought up on, and morals and standards I worked out for myself and would like to keep.

Now suddenly these two children with a baby are all over the telly, news reports and this little boy couldn't even answer some of the questions asked to him, and why not? Because he should be in school, keeping himself busy with the most important fact, that of school education, working towards his future, not sitting on some hospital bed with a baby in his arms. xx

[dragonfly]

Crocus I don't believe in old fashion discipline where children were used and abused but it seems to me that it has gone to far the other way. Why can't we have a happy medium. A lot of children now are allowed to do anything they want and get away with it. By glorifying them in the media and paying for everything they need, and in some cases they aren’t even told they have done wrong, that must be seen as acceptance and that it is ok to do these things. Childhood years are getting less and less.

[dinger]

The latest today is the boy is to have a D N A test as two others are now saying they could be the father. I would have thought because of this lads age that would have been done sooner anyway.

[Crocus]

My goodness Dinger, this is getting even worse! Should it be proved that one of the other two could be the father, why has this little boy being "picked out" to be the father then? x

[dinger]

I don't know Crocus the plot deepens it seems.

[Crocus]

It sure does Dinger. It seems a few surprises are yet to come. xx

[jazzactivist]

I agree with many of the comments here. I think that there is a high chance that the real father of this baby is older, and it is just being covered up for whatever reason. In some Caribbean countries there is a lot of street status for men in how many children they have fathered (but don't necessarily look after!) and they often start in their early teens. Maybe this fashion has started to migrate over the ocean to the UK and is a sign of manliness in this boy's community.

I think that virginity has been viewed as something to get rid of as quickly as possible for a few decades now. I know that this was the case when I was a teenager in the late 70s, although once you did and it became known then you developed a reputation for being 'easy' and all the boys tried it on. It was hard to have any decent, non-sexual, relationship with a male. I think that this happens a lot now, combined with young women thinking that they are emancipated by dressing very provocatively and feeling that they have to be well versed in all the sexual positions etc that they read about in magazines. Their role models are also young women celebrities who seem to be very open about their sex lives. Plus, in some poor communities people view having sex and then a baby as something that can be done for free that stops people being bored. I also wonder whether the government has gone too far in making having a family so important that there is money, time off work, free items, priority housing etc, and this is making it very attractive to young people who don't see themselves having much of a future career and see having a baby as a way to improve their income and quality of life. Many young parents now also have parents who had them very young, and sometimes grandparents who did too, so it has become traditional in their families.

[Crocus]

I'm also thinking that the real father may be older, but then why "pick" on this little boy )although he was involved in adult stuff)? Something doesn't feel right here. What worries me about this girl is that she was having sex with quite few boys, one of them even as young as 12 and she probably still only 14. It's hair raising actually.

[souter girl]

While I would never wish to see us return to the bad old days when a pregnancy was so shameful girls would risk back street abortions or even commit suicide, I think we have to look at local authority policy regarding moving a single mum to the top of the housing list because she has a baby. She is NOT homeless, at this girl's age she is still the responsibility of her parents and it is simply encouraging people to do what they feel like, regardless of the consequences secure in the knowledge that society will pick up the tab. In this age of so-called sex education in schools, contraception on demand and almost abortions on demand - does nobody learn anything? I also find it weird that we are so hung up on paedophilia and yet condone young girls dressing up like "jail bait" - what do we expect? Feckless is the word which springs to mind! Nobody is prepared to stand up and say this is wrong behaviour - perhaps this baby would de better if she were adopted by a loving childless couple. There is also the "role model" of so-called celebrities who seem to produce babies at the drop of a hat and have themselves photographed for the "celeb mags" with"bump" and all hanging out! ( I know -having just been to the hairdresser's I almost felt I didn't know where to look!!!)

[Crocus]

Yes it's like in the old days as you've mentioned SG, where pregnant girls were either hidden somewhere or have backstreet abortions, to modern times where literally everything goes. One extreme to the other and in all of this babies get born in 'unnatural' circumstances. xx

[dinger]

I don't understand this being allowed . Recently there have been cases of would be adopters being turned down because they are over weight ,too old in their 40s and several other petty reasons.

[jazzactivist]

Ideally, I would like to see people only having children after the age of 25, as by then everyone has had a good chance to either go to university and get a job or work for a while in a job. However, I don't know how this type of rule could be initiated, unless it was encouraged by the government making a decision that only parents aged over 25 who have been in employment can receive any child-related benefits. Then there would be no incentives to become pregnant too soon, and I am sure that the current interest in early sex would probably wane too, as many young people think that it doesn't matter if they have a baby as their lifestyle will actually improve with more money, and lots of attention paid to them and the baby. However, early sex and pregnancy are more complex that just money and independence. I am never keen on a return to the past, but perhaps we should return to thinking that having a family is something that a couple naturally does when they have made a firm commitment to one another and are financially independent of their parents and the state. There should be nothing special about it, just something that people expect to do once they are in the position to, and not before.

[Crocus]

It will be a very good idea I think if couples were to wait until they have settled down regarding a job, possibly own property and are also settled in their minds. Then permanent commitments and babies can follow. I got married when I was 24 but had my first child only at 32, due to other circumstances.

[jazzactivist]

I could no sooner have imagined having a baby when I was a teenager as flying to the moon. I got married at 28, crocus, but would have felt unready even at that age to have started a family straight away. My OH and I were in the early stages of developing our respective careers and put in very long hours. We also lived in a grotty, rented flat in the middle of Edinburgh which would have been unsuitable for raising a family. After that we moved to a small house in a country village, but the mortage was so expensive in 1990 that we couldn't have afforded a child even if we had badly wanted one.

[Crocus]

I don't think we would've been able to afford it in the early years of our marriage as well. Apart from that I had a battle falling pregnant and in a way I'm quite glad I only had Jaco when I was 32 because I was much more mature for having to take on a mentally disabled child at that age. If I had to have him a few years earlier, I don't think I would've coped as well as I did. xx

[jazzactivist]

Yes, your 30s are probably the most stable age to have a family, crocus. By then people have generally settled down quite well and are mature and sensible enough to handle any extra difficulties that might come along too. I think that the average age to get married in SA was about 28. People didn't rush into it, or rush to have children. I was surprised to see so many young mums in the UK. My sister-in-law here had her first baby when she was 16 and by half-brother was 18, and when I met this niece she was 14 and planned to start a family at 16 (but she did in fact wait until she was in her 20s). I thought that it was very odd, and they thought that my approach was very odd. I was only just 22 when I left SA to travel the world as a single woman, but to my sister-in-law's family I seemed like a mature adult who was just avoiding family life!

[Crocus]

My mum-in-law got married quite young at 18 I think, had her first child a year after.
My youngest sister-in-law also got married at 18 and had her first child at 19. Now she is 51 and already has 3 grandchildren. Here I am, 57, with twin boys of 18 in school still! Jaco of course would've been 25 3 weeks ago.

[Ivy]

I got pregnant at 23 unintentionally my boyfriend an myself still in our apprenticeship courses we got married and had the baby 6 weeks after we both finished your courses. we were hard up for money but we got by somehow. Our son is 18 next month his sister is 15 we are still married , own our house, have a dog and two cats and I am glad I was an early mum. A lot of people my age with small children now (first time mothers at around 40) are so much more stressed than I ever was, and both children have not been easy (one with multiple allergies the other one suffering from Diabetes) I could not have coped at a later time giving up my established lifestyle for bringing up children.

[Crocus]

Although being an older mum (32 with first child) and then 7 years later the twins, I felt that I could cope much easier with having my kids with me being older. But the other side of this coin is that we are now "old" ;) and have teenagers which sometimes can be a bit of a struggle, to understand how they think! But we try to do our best to our knowledge, listen and learn from other parents with kids the same age. Sometimes I do think parents much younger than us, allow things to go a bit to far where we have the advantage of perhaps being a more wiser with certain things. Balancing acts most of the time it seems! xx

[Ivy]

Crocus I don't think its a question of age but of attitude. My son has a friend who's parents are approaching 60 soon and they don't care a bit what their son does because they simply can't cope. Obviously I am not talking about teenage parents but once you are a grown up person I think you can't generalize on when it is the right time to get children or if at all.

[dragonfly]

I think it is about maturity. Some people are mature in their 20's and some not until 40's. But I think you can not be mature in your teens. I had my children when young but wish I had waited until we were more secure financially and in our relationship but young enough to see my grandchildren grow up.

[Crocus]

I wish I had my children at a younger age when it comes to grandchildren. I won't be able to run around with them like my mum did with our children. She ended short of climbing trees along with them! xx

[jazzactivist]

I am pleased with my decision not to have children, but now that I am 47 I do see other people a bit older than me out with their grandchildren and do realise that I have missed out on the fun of raising children and grandchildren.

[Crocus]

Children cause you to stretch your brain to where you never thought it could go Jazz! From very happy, through the whole spectrum right down to very sad and of course very cross. But these are the extreme ends. One can't be very happy parents all the time because it's not normal, or balanced. Just as you can't be these very angry parents all the time because that's abnormal and unbalanced. You kind of waver between these two extreme ends all the time, which is the norm anyway. Days can go by here where everything is fine, laughter, fun. Then something happens and everybody is upset or unsettled. I sometimes think by myself why did I ever have children (which makes me feel so guilty and ungrateful!), just to realise once again, I won't ever be able to be without them, I love them to much! I think most parents think this way and experience going from the one extreme to the other.

My sister won't have grandchildren and she never missed it actually till about 6 months ago. But it is to late now. I just hope that I will have the privilege of having grandchildren. xx

[Crocus]

Does anyone perhaps know the outcome of the DNA tests to establish whether this 13 year old boy is the father of the baby? x

[bonnie]

I have just read on the internet that little alfie age 13 is not a father after all.

Little Alfie Patten, reported to have become a parent at the age of 13, did not father a baby, it has been revealed. Skip related content
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In February, The Sun newspaper reported the teenager believed he had made Chantelle Stedman, 15, pregnant when he was aged just 12.

A DNA test has since shown this is not the case and it can now be reported that Tyler Barker, 15, who lives on the same estate as Chantelle in Eastbourne, is in fact the father of baby Maisie, who was born on February 9.

The result can be revealed after East Sussex County Council failed in an attempt to ban reports of the case.

A judgment, made last month by Mrs Justice Eleanor King, said Chantelle had been called a "slut" by four people she did not know. The teenager said "I was crying a lot every day" and feared that the insults would "go on forever".

Alfie was "extremely distressed" when he was told he was not the baby's father in March, the judgment revealed. At the time the story was published, Alfie, who lives with his mother Nicola, 43, in Eastbourne, said he "thought it would be good to have a baby".

The story renewed calls for better sex education in England, which has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in western Europe.