organ donation

[jazzactivist]

Hi all. What do you think of plans to change the law regarding organ donation in the UK, so that people's organs are automatically donated when we die, unless we have officially opted out of doing so?

I have always carried an organ donor card, and am very happy for any or all of my organs to be used when I die if it means that someone else can live longer as a result. It seems sensible to me for everyone to be automatically expected to donate organs after death, unless there is a medical reason as to why the organs can't be used. However, some people seem to be arguing differently, saying that they either don't want it to be assumed that they would donate their organs, or that it should be the surviving family's choice. What is your position / experience of organ donation?

[dragonfly]

It seems a sensible idea to me, I have carried the card for 20 years. I think it is a thing most people don't want to think about so this way they don't have to. It seems more sensible to opt out than to opt in as a lot of people don't bother.

[souter girl]

A subject very close to my heart as OH had a liver transplant 12 years ago. He was lucky - he only had to wait a few months for his liver but it was still an uphill struggle afterwards. While he was in intensive care after a particularly dodgy episode after the op I got to know a family whose daughter in her early 20's had come in after a brain haemorrhage and was effectively brain dead. The surgeons were coming to talk to them about organ donation when I made a discreet exit, but we got talking in the days that followed,and they said that their daughter had always carried a donor card, but it was only after they met us - me and the girls- that they saw the point of it all i.e. that it gave someone else a chance to live. It was a very humbling experience. What was lovely though was the way the nurses treated her (she was in a bay in ITU too) - they washed her, combed her hair and talked very gently to her the whole time although she was in an irreversible coma, showing her so much respect and tenderness. I believe that several of her organs were donated in the end including corneas. Trouble is, you can carry a donor card and your next of kin can still refuse. I also believe that some people think that doctors etc. don't try to hard to save you if you have a donor card, which is absolute rubbish of course.One reason there are fewer donors is improved safety in cars - people survive accidents better than in the days before airbags and compulsory seatbelts!

[Clunkshift]

As a biker, I am regarded in the medical world as a potential donor but perversely, I have never carried a donor card because I know that relatives can overrule my consent - and I suspect that some of them may do for "religious" reasons.

So I welcome the premise of organ donor consent unless a non-consent card can be produced, as long as it cannot still be overruled by relatives.

However I would like there to be firm line drawn between organ donation and "medical research", as giving organs, corneas etc for transplant to another person is quite different to handing over the whole body for use/display/disposal by the medical profession.

Clunk
(just back from another hospital visit for Swmbo's pre-op tests)

[Crocus]

I hope it went well Clunk? x

[dragonfly]

Does anyone know if you become to old to donate organs. My eyes have gone really bad these last few years and other parts must be deteriorating..

I also hope it went well Clunk x

[Clunkshift]

Sorry for drifting off topic - all is on course for Swmbo's op next Monday.

There are many "religous" views on organs, mainly concerning either the percieved "wholeness" or "sanctity" of the body or the need for complete and simultaneous burial.
Personally speaking, my God wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't sort out a mere transplanted piece of flesh, it wouldn't auger well for "the deep giving up the dead that are in it" at some future time; which would be turned into a farce on the lines of the "old lady who swallowed a fly" but in gigantic marine proportions.

I read somewhere that due to the finite quantities of air in the world, we have all probably breathed the same air particles as Julius Ceasar, so the "Ilkley Moor B'aht 'at" food chain scenario probably makes us all cannibals in some measure and already shareres od body molecules.
So I'm happy to leave these finer judgements to far higher authorities.

Clunk

[souter girl]

I think it is very hard for next of kin to make that sort of decision when they are presumably pole-axed by grief and shock - it is so much better to carry a donor card and it would be ideal if one's wishes were respected! Clunk - you may find your organs are not all ideal for transplantation because of chemo, but if they are, carry that card and tell your family to respect your wishes!

[franbee]

I've always had a donor card too, they can have any of my bits that are fit for use, but not for a long time I hope! I think it's a very personal decision to donate, and if an individual has requested that, no one should be allowed to overturn it.

[bonnie]

I have been in this position when Stuart was killed. when he was a couple of years younger he said he would like to carry a doner card, but we never thought anymore about it.
When he was killed we were asked if we wanted any of his organs to be donated. I have to say, i said NO. I couldnot let them take any part of my son. I admit i was distraught at the time and the thought of anyone cutting my son up was too much to endure.
Maybe i made the wrong decision, i dont know. that was how i felt at the time.

[Crocus]

Hi Bonnie, I can understand your feeling. xxxx

[dragonfly]

Bonnie there is no right or wrong decision it is all personal choice. While I am in a 'nornal' frame of mind I think I would donate my son's organs but god forbid I am ever in that situation and grief stricken I don't know how I would react.

I think it is easier to decided for yourself than someone else. I do think that if someone carries the card their wishes should be honoured. I have made my wishes plain so that there is no doubt even though I know it must be very hard on my relatives. I just like the thought that my body, that will be no use to me anymore, might improve the life of someone else.xx

[Shelli]

I agree that it should be the individual's decision (over 18 years old) and that it should be respected by the family - but it needs to be properly formalised by the individual themselves so that family overruling just isn't an option.

The situation that i find hard to understand is when the family say no to organ donation when asked and then cremate the body of their loved one - my fathers family did this when his sister died - it didn't make sense to me at all

But then they are religious - she obviously needed her whole body as she had been "promoted to Glory" and I am agnostic/athiest so the deep philosophy of this was lost on me. - anyone religious able to explain ??

[Clunkshift]

Shelli,
I can only speak for the Christian perception - I have been to the towers of silence in Mumbai where Parsis leave their dead bodies, but there were no vultures about when I was there. I have seen a Hindu funeral pyre from a distance but I can't defend other faiths.

The Christian expectation is a general resurrection of the dead on the "last day". For this reason, bodies were buried with the headstone facing East, presumably so that the stone didn't shade the grave or that the body was facing the wrong way and missed the first possible "uptake".
This of course assumes that the body will not be eaten by worms etc, who in turn will be eaten by ducks etc etc.
Cremation was used when someone died of a plague or some obviously infectious disease and became popular when victorians realised that it stopped body parts from be consumed or stolen and made so much more room in cemetaries.

When the bible was published in modern language and in the hands of common folk, some of the church traditions were questioned and thrown out by some protestant non-conformists. Thessalonians chapter 4 (among other scriptures) clearly indicates a bodily resurrection before "the last day". This caused many Christians to insist on burial of the whole body with the odd thought that if an organ had been donated, it would either be taken back at this "catching away" (or "rapture" - a word not in scripture) of the church or unavailable for bodily restitution.
This has to be a fallacy as one could be an amputee or otherwise missing parts or even buried at sea and eaten by fish and crustaceans and if this made a bodily resureection impossible, then an all powerful God would seem a bit weak. This thought is contradicted by the Lord having made eyes of clay for a blind man - so the answer lies in the soil and Adam coming from the dust of the earth, so material is freely available to make up any deficiencies.

But while some people cling to the belief that the body must be "whole" when buried, I am surprised that this view is taken through to a whole body being cremated.

I take the view that the body is precious to God (who hid Moses body from any interference) and would rather have mine buried than burned, but I am sure that God will make up any deficiencies if all the saints are to be "Like Him" (i.e. like Christ). This is not a new type of cloning, but a holiness issue.

The Christian views burying a body as the sowing of a seed, with the expectation of a harvest - which is why the bible speaks of Christ as "the first fruit of the ressurection" (this also fulfils Old Testament Mosaic offerings but I am digressing).

I hope this makes some sense, but don't ask me what non-Christians like Jehovahs Witnesses believe because I have no idea.

Clunk x
(pre-tribulation rapturist)

[Shelli]

Thank you Clunk for your time and energy in producing such a fullsome interesting and worthy answer. And how brave of you to put yourself and your personal beliefs out there like that.

So basically what you are saying is that people interpret their holy books however best suits their basic human feelings about Death and dead bodies and the prevailing social (and to a degree economic) conditions at the time. - No surprises there then!!

We are from the earth - we go back to the Earth - easy enough philosophy which seems to carry across all religions and humanist belief too.

I wish you sincerely your bodily resurrection on the last day - It's high time the meek got something, bless them!! ;) - sorry for being cheeky:) couldn't resist!!

Shelli X
(Humanist Agnostic Atheist) - blimey am I really? - what a mouthful!
How about ....

Shelli X
(Earthling) - Better?

[Crocus]

According to Google:

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/religion/


http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2164

Also this:

"CHRISTIANITY

The Christian faith is based on the relevation of God in the life of Jesus Christ. Throughout his life, Jesus taught people to love one another and he proved his love for the world upon the cross. It is because of this that Christians consider organ donation as a genuine act of love and a way of following Jesus' example. This act of love then becomes part of a faith journey that is motivated by compassion to help someone else and demonstrates a sence of social responsibility. "



To me, as a Christian, what happens to my soul, is important.

[Clunkshift]

Thank you Crocus for the official view.

Shelli - I am familiar with:
The meek shall inherit the Earth; if that's alright with everybody else.

I wouldn't judge anyone for any viewpoint on organ donation - there are few decisions more personal than the disposal of the body of someone you love. The care of that body is something for which many soldiers would rather die than leave a comrade's body to the enemy.

[Crocus]

Hi Clunk, I agree, it's a very personal and emotional decision.