The Portrait of a Lady

[buecherwurm]

Well, I don't really have time to read at the moment but I thought I start the new thread anyway.
A very short synopsis of Henry James's life:
Henry James was born April 15, 1843 in New York City. In his youth he travelled back and forth between America and Europe. After living in Paris (1875) for a while he moved to England and shortly before his death (he died Febr. 28, 1916 in London) he became a British subject. He never married.

"The Portrait of a Lady" was written to appear in "The Atlantic Monthly". It began to appear there in 1880. Between 1906 and 1910 he revised many of his novels for the New York edition of his complete works.
During his first years in Europe he wrote novels that portrayed Americans living abroad. "The Portrait of a Lady" tells the story of a young American woman who becomes a victim of her provincialism during her travels in Europe.

On the back of my book it says: "Love, intrigue and betrayal combine in this powerful, many-layered novel, widely considered to be Henry James's masterpiece".

More info can be found on Wikipedia

[eleanor2]

beuch off to the library today wil be getting the book and joining you.thanks for info it is sparking my interest in the book. rtrrtyttfffjjnutsa(a message from my grandson)

[eleanor2]

beuch went into the library to ask for book.apparantly there is only one in the whole of my area.it has to keep going back into store.it was in transit back to store.so they have to wait for it to arrive before the re order can go through.she said i might be able to have it next tuesday.

[Crocus]

This sounds like a very interesting book. I'm going to have a look whether our library has it in stock.

[Cheryl]

I have a copy of the book that would love to be read. I will send it off via Canada Post should someone want to forward me their address.

Also, in a pinch, the book can be read online at [url]www.bartleby.com
...not exactly the same as cuddling up in a favorite armchair...

I look forward to reading everyone's input on the novel. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to sit and read the book myself, so I'll settle for the Rural Muse reader's condensed version!

cheryl

[Clunkshift]

I’ll put my head above the parapet with comment on chapter 1


Portrait of a Lady must have been written while James was quite new to England as his descriptions are quirky; being a mixture of detail and vagueness.
One example is the description of the house, it is a Tudor house and therefore almost certainly 16th century but it is described a being built in the time of Edward VI, whose regency only lasted seven years (1547 to 1553), but then mentions that Elizabeth slept there, which could have been at any time from 1558 to 1603.
He continues in his description: the house is constructed of brick (with no mention of timbers) with patches of ivy and creepers over the windows.
There are Tudor constructions without timbers in the walls but they are a minority and generally vast manor houses or mansions like Hampton Court House. Neither of which would have required later extensions.
Ivy would be acceptable, but creepers are not a feature of English country houses and especially not over the windows.

The position of the house is given as a hill above a river which is possible within 40 miles of London, but unless the house I s along way from the river, there is either an unusually steep slope to the lawns, substantial terracing or a small cliff somewhere as a “perfect lawn” would certainly be flat enough for croquet or tennis.
Now the old man must be looking at the back of the house but James speaks of the gabled front of the house before finally deciding that the house has two fronts, so I will ignore the gables part on the assumption that re-roofing was a later addition too.

James has a habit of describing people a good while before he names them, as if he relishes the descriptions, but again his descriptions are not comprehensive and presumably are intended to make the reader see the person in a particular way; almost forcing a moral appraisal of the character based solely on a fleeting glance.
The old man is a retired banker, one who has made his fortune and retired form the USA to a quiet life by the river. It seems a most inactive retirement for one who was energetic enough to succeed in business. James is at great pains to point out that he was a success through kindness rather than the ruthlessness which is usually a prerequisite of banking success.
One young man is condemned by his features, his expression, his gait and the fact that he has his hands in his pockets and is given no redeeming features except a respect and solicitous care for his father, with whom he has a strange banter about the relative weakness of their legs. We don’t even know if he is an only child, just his expression and posture. The reader is left to fall in with a negative view of this son or to assume that the ugly duckling will somehow make the transition to a swan by the end of the book.
The other man, is 35 years old and characterised by his universally admirable appearance and demeanour but is apparently the owner of a better house than the old man and is not reticent about stating this fact. He is stated to be an object of envy but his clothes are bizarre; Boots and spurs are unusual while visiting as spurs are inconvenient and can make a mess of furnishings, the large white hat is puzzling as are the soiled dog skin gloves, both of which jar with the idea of an English gentleman on horseback.
I am not sure If the reader id supposed to like him or not. If he were an American, one would assume a background of “old money”, Ivy League education and inheritance of the family business. A statement of wealth would me as normal to him as a statement of health and not seen as bragging.
This is the opposite of how a gentleman would be viewed by an Englishman; bragging is not gentlemanly or polite, when one knows that one is superior, one doesn’t need to broadcast the fact because it should be obvious by his bearing and his courteous and self-effacing manners. Lord Warburton is the first to receive a name and must be a wastrel because he finds comfort boring, he never earns rest but only idles in comfort. The modern English reader is therefore drawn to conclude that this man is a cad and a rogue who should not be trusted; one who would regard the conquest of a pretty young woman as simply another notch on his cane, one who has moved on from exercising his droite de seignior over servant girls to a life of dissipation and debauchery, rather than honest toil in business.
So I am not sure if he is a potential hero or villain, my suspicion is that he is made a member of the aristocracy so that he can be a despised villain later on.

Again the conversation between the three men is odd; the father and son are obviously suffering from old age and congenital weakness, but Warburton compares it to being sick in the Persian gulf, which is a very pretentious statement, as it is a relatively quiet, exotic backwater rather than a known storm area of an ocean like the Irish sea or the bay of Biscay and he has the careless nerve to compare lifelong illness with temporary sea sickness.

The old man is then held forth as a virtuous man of great wealth and great charity but warns of coming change like an ancient Greek soothsayer and advises Warburton that marriage to a good woman is his only hope for the future but immediately warns him off his niece, of whom this is the first mention.

The stage is therefore set for the entrance of Mrs Touchett and her Niece in the next chapter.

And I hate the names Warburton and Touchett, they sound somehow more comic than I am sure was intended.


Clunk x.

[eleanor2]

clunk what a write up.i gather you dont much care for this book at the start.it sounds completely different to my normal read.so a challenge is ahead...

[Clunkshift]

Eleanor,

I didn't say that I don't like the book, Dotoyevsky takes a while getting round to his themes too. I admit that I don't often read books by American authors because I hate sentences like: he dove in and drug her out before he'd gotten permission.

I just think James has been a bit lazy with his groundwork and relishishes the sound of words with less regard for their actual meaning.

I look forward to possible intrigue, scandal, and villainy and hope for a bit of boddice ripping and shameless desire along the way. A bit of heart thumping, swooning, sobbing and ferocious argument wouldn't come amiss either...

Jump in Eleanor, fill your boots.

Clunk x.

[Oola]

I'll see if I can dig out my old annotated copy and compare my notes from the first chapter. If I recall correctly the next few chapters should rouse some interesting discussions about stereotypes and perceptions of other cultures.

[eleanor2]

clunk i think you will have everyone reading the book if you carry on like this.what expectations we will all have now......
my sister has lived in America for 30 years.have an American brother in law and 2 nieces.so i am a bit used to Americans.i will be interested to compare.

[buecherwurm]

Hi Clunk, just printed your comment. Too much to remember. I want to compare it when reading the first chapter. Does it actually say that it is a Tudor House? Have to re-read the first pages, must have overlooked it.

[Clunkshift]

BW,

They don't actually describe it as Tudor in chapter 1, but that is how the son describes it in chapter 2; when asked "is it Elizabethan?" he answers "Its early Tudor".
I'm not the one beong pedantic here, as broadly speaking, Henry VIII and Elizabeth I were both Tudors and therefore "Tudor" style is really no different from "Elizabethan" and both eras covered about one century. But James has chosen a seven year interregnum to build his house when we didn't actually have a monarch at all, Edward VI was a child and never reigned as the country was run by his guardians.
Similarly Tudor houses are clasically timber framed with non-brick white washed infills to give a starkly black and white look with overhanging upper storeys - just like European medieval buildings.
Their roofs were plain and only had gables at the ends, since the upper windows did not project above the gutter line.

But James has to have his built of brick with no timbers mentioned and for some reason has multiple gables, which would usually denote a much later era.

While I would have let this pass if it only came up in the 1st chapter, he harks back to it in chapter 2 when having plumped for a short era After Henry Tudor (the normal owner of the term "Tudor") he describes it as "early tudor" when it is in fact either "middle" or "late" depending whether you describe Elizabeth as "Elizabethan" or "Tudor" - and she was both.

I think I am frustrated with his lack of descriptions, but with inaccurate, irrelevant details thrown in. He doesn't even give Mr Touchett's first name until chapter 5.
I have the feeling that as a reader I am being drip fed information to make me think of the charachters in a particular way, rather than to make up my own mind about them and I object to being told what to think.

I find that one reading of a chapter is not enough to formulate a complete picture and tend to re-read earlier parts in the light of later information, which then shows up any continuity failures.

I don't mean to rubbish the book in any way, but just to say how I find it.

Clunk x.

[buecherwurm]

Morning Clunk,
this morning at the dentsit (you always have to wait) I read as far as chapter 3. And like you said I was surprised by the mentioning of the house having been built in early Tudor. Especially as I googled this period last night after reading your comment. And I also think that Edward VI should be already in the middle of the Tudor period, like you said. But I also found out that even during Tudor times big country houses were built with bricks. So maybe Henry James had one of those in mind.?
I must admit I normally would have read over these points and "painted" a picture of the house and gardens in my head without checking the historical facts. So thanks for bringing my attention to these inconsistencies.

[eleanor2]

in a town ner to us there are still a few original timber frame as i have always called elizabethan houses.you have got me interested now with this chat.wil go and have a closer look.

[souter girl]

I am reminded of a sketch with Barry Humphreys as Edna Everidge exclaiming at a Morris Traveller "she" has seen in Stratford " Look at that! A half-timbered car!" If you are old enough, like me, to remember Morris Travellers, you will know what I mean.
I suspect Henry James has taken advantage of what we politely refer to as "poetic licence"

[Ivy]

Half timbered car--- I like that one. I must confess I took the book three times and dropped it as many times because I found it utterly boring. Something that doesn't happen often with me.

[Clunkshift]

Come on Eleanor,
I'm up to chapter six while I wait for your views on chapter one!
this is no hardship as I have to keep backtracking to unravel Mr James' convoluted thought patterns.
I don't want to spoil it for you but there are no ripped bodices yet.

Clunk x.

[eleanor2]

sorry i still havnt had time to collect it from the library.must ring today t ask them keep it for me.hoping to collect today.will go and rng now.

[Clunkshift]

I can scarcely wait for Eleanor to get started, by chapter VIII my English blood is hot and anti-colonial feelings well enough stirred to give Mr James a severe slapping.

I suspect he lived on the edge of Romney Marsh under the delusion that he was blending in with the locals and deflected all his own prejudices into his book characters.

I'm not anti-American, I read all Micheal Crichton's books as soon as they come out, but Henry James could have been the leader of the Boston Tea party in my view.
james loves big words so you can expect my reviews to fall on the vituperative side of critical...

Clunk x

p.s I am a reasonable person really and very kind to animals and children...

[eleanor2]

clunk i dont want to dissapoint pbut i dont look as deep as you.i read on an emotional level.you ought to see me blubbing at some books.anyway i managed to find the book in a charity shop today 50p so hopefully i will read ch 1 tonight.should be interesting hearing what people write from completely different view points.

[eleanor2]

it is as i thought i have read the first three chapters.i just dont look deep into what the writer is describing around him.i like to read and then make my own picture up in my mind.the first thing i concentrate on is the characters.i like them.they seem jovial, liesurely and upto yet down to earth.now contrast this with the wealthy in the jane austin stories.the wealthy English aristrocrats are very snobby and prejudiced.here we have old mr touchet a cheecky old man. his son ralph who is ugly and a bit disabled but he seems a really likable chap.i even like Lord warburton.i think this is because of thier friendly banter.they say what they want to each other without fear of offence being taken.to me that means they are pretty good friends.i love it when miss archer comes on the scene.she is obviously a good looking young American woman. probably a bit more confident and loud than the typical English girl of her calibre at that time.all the men are instantly drawn to her attentions.ralph must be smitten he straight away gives her his dog. If you ask me his life is so boring he almost begs her stay for as long as possible in the first dialogue. old mr touchetis quite forward in telling her she is beautiful, Lord warburton stands afar watching and listening which of course stirs up miss archers interest in him. i think it is a greed between the men that miss archer is one interesting woman.

[Clunkshift]

Chapter 2

Henry James becomes a lexicographer’s delight and a translator’s nightmare from this point onwards, he seems to delight in using arcane or unusual words and to be honest, I don’t enjoy a narrative so much if I have to stop and think about the meaning of words because it tends to break up the flow.
An example of this is when Ralph, who has already been clearly named, is referred to in mid conversation with Isabel as “her interlocutor”. This causes me to stop and look over their conversation up to this point to see if Ralph’s questions constitute an interrogation, because if it doesn’t, the word interlocutor adds no value to the narrative.

James seems to have a butterfly nature with regard to descriptions in that he seems more intent on using as many words as possible without actually painting a coherent picture.
Mr Touchett and Lord Warburton are perceived from the threshold of the (ample) door to be in the shade of trees which presumably are either on the far side, or to one side of the lawn. Ralph wanders in a slouch across the lawn, his face is turned to the house (therefore he is not walking towards the house) but his eyes are “bent musingly on the lawn”.

The arrival of Mrs Touchett and her niece being kept secret from her husband stretches credibility. The girl says that she met a dozen servants in the hall yet no-one came and told the master of the house. If Mrs T is hardly ever there, the servants will have more loyalty to Mr T and the butler would at least have sent a maid to tell the master that he had visitors.

Miss Archer is right to as Ralph what his dog’s name is, but it is a shame that Ralph doesn’t tell her his father’s name because we don’t find out for another three chapters.

Mr Touchett’s meeting with Miss Archer is a little odd. Ralph and Isabel have arrived in front of him after what seems a very short walk across the lawn and although his father has slowly risen from his chair to introduce himself, Ralph says “My mother has arrived, and this is Miss Archer”. Surely Ralph would not say “My” mother but simply Mother has arrived? Also this seems a rude thing to say when his father and his niece need introduction, therefore the matter of his mother’s arrival can be taken as read. A proper introduction would be: “father, may I introduce Miss Archer and Miss Archer, may I introduce my father Mr Touchett”. Instead we have the vision of an elderly man, unsteady on his legs, and presumably with a rug slipped down around his ankles, putting his hands on the shoulders of a complete stranger; this is not good manners.
How do you look at someone with extreme benevolence? Is this some Holman Hunt Christ-like look or is he about to perform a papal crossing in the air and proclaim “bless you my child”? No he isn’t, but he is about to kiss her gallantly! Is there some special etiquette that required her to be kissed and Ralph has been ungallant by failing to kiss her? Surely the old man is already in too intimate an embrace to be gallant in any way.

For all the big words he uses, James’ grammar is a little suspect: “it’s a great pleasure to me to see you here” implies that the other two men have received no pleasure from her presence; he should have said “It’s a great pleasure FOR me, to see you here” as he can only really speak for his own feelings.

I suspect that I am deriving humour where it is not intended but “an old woman curtseying at the gate” and the response “We can do better than that – if we have notice” brings to me an image of three men curtseying before a gatepost too – a strange greeting indeed! Later in the book James does use word play as humour, so if he doesn’t intend humour here or double-entendres later, he really should be more accurate.

Mrs Touchett’s husband slowly resumed his former posture. This is odd phraseology because we know who Mr Touchett is, and that he is married. We also know that he was seated in a large wicker chair with a shawl around his shoulders and a rug over his legs; to resume that posture slowly must have been comical to watch.

Another quirky sentence is: “they gave me some tea in my room before I got there”. Apart from being physically impossible, it is poor English even for an American.

I trust that “out of health” is an Americanism as it is jarring English.

On the subject of houses, Lord Warburton’s opening gambit of “I’ve got a very good one, I should like very much to show it to you” does not mark him out as English, a gentleman or indeed that he “had an excellent manner with women”; double entendres are as old as language itself and rather shows him up as a rather lecherous man.
Isabel is said to have “a certain visible eagerness of desire to be explicit”. Is that a verbose way of saying that she always spoke plainly, or is James unable to speak plainly therefore none of his characters can either?

From the story viewpoint, Mr Touchett is a god-like figure exuding goodwill and benevolence, His wife is headstrong and wayward and cares little for him. His doting son idolises him and is immediately besotted with his cousin, while Warburton sees a possible conquest within easy reach.

My observations may come across as harsh criticism but I really do want to know the characters and I need a more personal description of them like: eyes of deep blue like clear tropical waters, cold blue eyes with a pitiless quality about them, pale cheeks always on the point of blushing and how about some eyebrows: quizzically arched, bushy and wayward etc. How about some lips described too, cold, thin and pallid or red, full and pouting or perhaps smiling, slightly parted and sensual?
How about Isabel? Is she blonde, brunette or redheaded and what colour eyes does she have? Is the black dress a sign of mourning (and why Mr Touchett mentions her lately losing her father) and is it plain or frilled? Does it show off a well turned ankle or a delicate strapped shoe?
What about Warburton’s chestnut hair – does he have a moustache and if so is it clipped thin, walrus bushy, waxed to points, soft and luxuriant or short and spiky? And what shape is his white hat? Boaters aren’t white but panamas may be, or is he straight back from Persia and Mesopotamia and wearing a Solar Topee or a pith helmet?
I need more detailed observations or I begin to make up my own and all I know of Isabel from this chapter is that she is tall, flexible, wide eyed and not shy of making herself quite at home with complete strangers.



Over to you BW?

[buecherwurm]

Hi Clunk,
Will write tomorrow, I think. Was rather busy lately.

[buecherwurm]

In his preface Henry James says at one point .....The result is that I'm often accused of not having "story" enough. I seem to myself to have as much as I need - to show my people, to exhibit their relations with each other; for that is all my measure. If I watch them long enough I see them come together..... How they look and move and speak and behave......"
So maybe lots of things Clunk is missing Henry James had in his mind and assumed the reader would "know" them as well? Also, maybe this "lack of story" was what made Ivy put the book aside a few times and never finishing it? I, too, had tried to read this book once before and was a bit bored by it because, at least at the beginning, nothing really happens. So, I'm really glad that we are reading it together now.!
The first house you, Clunk, put on the "Tudor house" thread, is kind of what I had imagined the house of the Touchett's to look like.
The house seems to be very well liked by its owner, an old American banker who we later learn is called Mr. Touchett. Mr Touchett has over a period of 20 years improved and refined it and has aquainted himself with its history. While sitting on the lawn (in a wicker chair) drinking his tea he is gazing at his house. I think he is quite satisfied with what he sees.
Now Henry James starts to describe Mr Touchett and I must say this irritates me ".....who had come from America 30 years before, had brought with him, at the top of his baggage, his American physiognomy.....". I didn't know that something like an "American physiognomy" existst or existed and it doesn't really describe anything to me. We learn, that he has a narrow face and a little later we read about him having a spacious cheek. So, I wonder how that works out?
But on the whole he seems to be a successful, quiet and content man, who being elderly isn't in a good state of health.
There are 2 more people on the lawn walking up and down. One is described as being 35 and very good looking but like Clunk says, dressed a bit peculiar. I wonder how I should picture the white hat?
The other person is described as tall, lean, loosely and feebly put together. I wonder what is meant by that. Learning later that this man is and was ill I think it could mean, that his clothes are quite baggy on him at the moment.? We also learn that he has an ugly, sickly, witty and charming face. How can that be; ugly and charming?
I think the 3 are quite likeable. The one is quite considerate towards his sick father and I don't think just out of duty. The other one, Lord Warburton, seems to know father and son quite well as can be seen by the bantering that is going on between them.
Old Mr Touchett is married and we learn that his wife is expected home any "minute" (she had spent the winter in America). The Touchett's marriage isn't a happy one and it seems the more time they spent apart the better. Mrs Touchett had announced that she'd bring a niece nobody had known about and Lord Warburton sees the opportunity for a flirt but is told by old Mr Touchett that she will be off-limits to him (does that mean he is known to have broken many hearts?).
Ralph Touchett (the son) is now wandering around a bit "....his face turned towards the house, but his eyes were bent musingly on the lawn....". I had the feeling that you, Clunk, were irritated by this? I think it just says that he is walking in the direction of the house but being deep in thought he doesn't really see it. And therefore he doesn't see the young woman who had appeared in a doorway. Ralph's dog is more attentive and rushes up to the young woman who picks Bunchie (the dog) up to get aquainted with him. As Ralph approaches she asks him whether it was his dog and he answers, "He was mine a moment ago, - but you've suddenly aquired a remarkable air of property to him". And here I might differ from eleanor and Clunk. I don't think he was smitten by her good looks straight away and therefore gave the dog to her but rather that since the dog seems to have adopted her; and dog and girl give such a pretty picture, he without much though offered his dog to her.

[eleanor2]

we seem to be having a lot of self examination by miss archer and she seems to like herself.pointing out all her strong points.i dont think at the moment she has a place in her life for a man .she wants to see and experience what the world has to offer .As for old Mr Daniel Touchet.The dear old man is a proffesional people watcher.most of his intelligence of society has come from visual and auditory observation to all going on around him. He is thankfull he is American,because he doesnt have to belong to a social class. For him there are two classes .those he trusts and those he doesnt. I quite like mr Daniel touchet.

[eleanor2]

ralph gets to like isobel a lot.she fills a lonely,bored empty space in his life.he doesnt fall in love with her because i think its obvious he has such low self esteem and only really has confidence in his fathers love and acceptance of him.so he is quite happy to have this friendship and interest whilst it lasts.but he couldnt help asking himself what was she going to do with herself.most women he says do nothing but wait for aman to come along and furnish them with a destiny. Not Isobel. She ha intentions of her own.Whenever she executes them Ralph would like to be there to see.
now we also have Lord Warburton. He is on £100,000 a year,with many properties.The most important man in the county,young and handsome too.he would be the most eligable batchelor about.with many a beautiful womans eye on him.isobel is described as very pretty but not beautiful.she appears to be a loud ,confident American woman.it seems Lord warburton is very much attracted to her.what about all the beautiful demure English ladies.is this a case of her character as well as her looks being a catalyst to his affections.

[eleanor2]

i think Henry james upto yet is portraying 3 weak men .yes i think lord warburton is on the weak side.falling in love with isobel at first sight.o.k it happens.but then asking her to marry him when he doesnt know her at all.getting all dithery and emotional about it.Ralph is quite happy in his weakness and accepts his ill health.old daniel touchet i think has been a real goer in his time.but he is now weak and frail.saying that he never did try to tame his wife by the sounds of it. then we have three strong outspoken women.mrs touchet, isobel and now henrieta stackpole,the last being the most outspoken .I actually think isobel quite a nice person now that henrietta has entered the scene.there is also a love triangle started.isobel, casper goodwood and lord warburton. Oh the poor woman i feel sorry for her. All that she wants is to get ot there in the world and experience life and 2 men want to tie her down .not just that they are stressing her out about it. what will she do.

[Clunkshift]

I will try for generality rather than dissection this time.
Mrs Touchett – “she was a plain-faced old woman, without graces and without any great elegance, but with an extreme respect for her own motives”.
So, a dour, graceless, gauche, opinionated, self-centred and self righteous old woman then?
She doesn’t sound at all like a loving, caring wife and mother; more an awkward old busybody. Her husband was lucky that she only saw him for one month each year.

Isabel – had a crowded life. She often stayed at her grandmother’s house, witnessed the civil war as a young girl, travelled to Europe with her father before she was 11 and in spite of a fractured education, managed to teach herself from books. She has fond memories of her father who, for reasons unexplained, she remembers as “brave”. In fact he seems to have lived the life of a gentleman by borrowing other people’s money, which he then failed to repay. Words like ‘feckless’ and ‘wastrel’ spring to mind…
Henry James’ own education was equally wayward an there may be an element of his putting forward the character of Isabel as a reflection of how he actually viewed himself (the very platonic or ascetic relationship between Mr & Mrs Touchett also echo James own life).

It appears that Isabel is all that Mrs Touchett is not, especially in regard to beauty and grace, so perhaps she is “taken up” so that Mrs Touchett can live another life vicariously through her niece. Starting with Caspar Goodwood, Ralph and Lord Warburton, she will be an attraction to men that Mrs Touchett had never been herself.


In chapter 5, I would like to slap James for such a word as “gubernatorial”, coming as it does in the same sentence as “progenitors” and “the sweetness of filial dependence”. I like words, but not as much as I like plain English and James seems to enjoy rolling out arcane words like “solicitude” and alliteration in the awful sentence: “Ralph rendered perfect justice to her affection and knew that in her thoughts and her thoroughly arranged and servanted life his turn always came after the other nearest subjects of her solicitude, the various punctualities of performance of the workers of her will”.

What on earth is he saying? Ralph accepted that he was justly low in her affections because her deeds and will were so strictly ordered that there was no place for him?

Big words and alliteration don’t always make good sense and in this salubrious sentence of scintillating and sagacious script, sensational serendipity becomes sanctimonious silliness, scarcely separated from superfluity of sentiment.

Anyhoo (as our colonial cousins say) Ralph loves his dad (at last named as Daniel) and is deemed “English” by his upbringing and education at Oxford.

Mrs Touchet says of Isabel: I found her, she was grateful to me, it would be a kindness to take her about, and I thought she would do me credit. Hence my thoughts on vicarious pleasure for Mrs Touchett.

At last we have some physical description of Isabel:
Tall, willowy with dark, almost black hair and light grey eyes.

In chapter 6, James takes ages to introduce a female journalist friend of Isabel – a character for future use.
We learn that Daniel Touchett sees Isabel as a reminder of his wife when she was young and that Isabel has a great regard for him and questions him about England. (and this a man who scarcely knows his neighbours!)
James makes a mistake here because Daniel explains all about the British constitution (but we don’t have one do we?), English character, politics, royalty and aristocracy. But then in chapter 8 he shows his own ignorance of primogeniture among the aristocracy by telling us that Lord Warburton is the 2nd son.
Lord Warburton has an elder brother who is in the army in India and a younger brother who has the living as a parish priest.
This is wrong. The eldest son inherits title and land, the second son joins the church and has the living (lifelong financial security) and the third son has a commission bought for him and joins the army. That is how primogeniture works, so that the family fortune is not dispersed and lost.

In chapter 7, Ralph tries to get closer to Isabel but she remains distant and shows an interest in Lord Warburton and at the end we see Mrs Touchett trying to bring some propriety to Isabel by not leaving her with Ralph and Warburton – which is something a real lady should have known.

Isabel will need much social education if she is really to be "a lady".

[dragonfly]

Eleanor can I borrow the book when you have finished it please. xx

[eleanor2]

yes dragonfly.it is a bit hard going.but i think i will get some cultural education.hence all these fancy words if i can be bothered to look them up.clunk in Northangr abbey jane Austin has the elder brother in the Army.i think its if they are that rich the elder brother can do what he wants.if he is a man of action off he goes.knowing all his land wil be looked after and there for him when he gets home. i must admit i was a bit confused.when Lord warburton was described as so filthy rich and of the landed gentry.to be then told he had an older brother.who would surely have inherited all this.i thought i had read it wrong.

[Clunkshift]

Eleanor,
I agree that the first son can do as he like with his inheritance, but only the first son inherits his father's title, so the eldest son is the hereditary "Lord" and the others are merely "honourable" aren't they?
Anyway, I think he will fall by the wayside like young Caspar when Mrs Touchett and her protegee swan off on their grand tour.

Clunk x.

[eleanor2]

i am finding this book a bit hard going.but this henrietta is a right bitchy women if you ask me.she is so rude to lord warburton and his sister.who does she think she is treating our aristocracy like that.trying to manipulate isobels life too.she is too full of herself.

[buecherwurm]

Haven't had time to read for a while. So really have to put in some serious reading sessions pretty soon. Otherwise you'll be on your next book before I'm half through

[eleanor2]

i know the feeling beuch.i am finding it hard to pick up.but once i start i get into it.

[eleanor2]

well horrible miss stackpole has gone off to greener pastures.isobel i am liking more and more.she is in for a big surprise.her cousin and uncle are plotting a scheme.on his death bed old mr touchet and ralph are making arrangements to leave isobel a fortune in his will.ralph wants her to have the freedom to travel and do what her heart desires.so she wont be tempted to marry when her paltry legacy of her fathers runs out.he has had to take into consideration that fortune hunters might zoom in on isobel.but he thinks she is strong enough to thwart this.so it looks like isobel will soon be off on an adventure.the story does need a bit of excitement.

[Clunkshift]

I find it difficult to feel sympathy with any of the characters; Mrs Touchett is overbearing, arrogant, judgemental and manipulative. Mr Touchett seems characterless and aloof while Ralph seems particularly active for an invalid and just appears as the lazy shirker that Henrietta virtually accuses him of being. He seems shallow in all his words.
Isabel swings from being and independent lady of the world to a frightened mouse where men are concerned. She is happy to string Caspar along but panics when she finds he is in the same country and wants to see her. She is all very sociable to Warburton until he calls specifically to see her, when she becomes upset and cold towards him while delighting in his obvious attraction to her. Her attitude is summed up when she says to him “Don’t hope too much” and “I think you had better go, I’ll write to you”. I think she loves being the focus of attention but leads men on too much.
Now that Warburton is elbowed out, we find that Caspar Goodwood is a wealthy young man with the highest education but was more an athlete than an intellectual.
The obvious comparison is drawn – lazy English peer versus hard working American businessman. (Shout hurrah for the USA).
I have no Idea why Henrietta wants to bring Caspar to Gardencourt, or why he refuses, but he is in London and that is where Warburton, Isabel and Ralph intend to go next.

I look forward to some big downfalls as I don't think Henry James is capable of anything racy and certainly not any boddice ripping...

[eleanor2]

clunk you are in for meeting another perfect woman who puts men down.

[eleanor2]

old mr touchet has died.this was not dramatized.even tho ralph would have been devastated nothing much was made of the death of a main character.after being asked by ralph the old man left her £70.000 a fortune in those days.she is actually upset to be left this amount.not knowing if its good to be so rich all of a sudden.i do like isobel. henrietta on the other hand.puts isobel and her inheritance down.she is so rude.i have a feeling perfect mrs merle is interested in isobels inheritance.upto yet this story is very slow and very undramatic........where are you clunk and beuch.......

[buecherwurm]

Morning eleanor,
sorry for being so quiet but really haven't picked up the book for some time now. I think now that my guests are away I might find some time to read. I have a lot of catching up to do as I'm still only on page 55. I'm a bit reluctant now because you 2 are saying that it's a bit boring.

[eleanor2]

well there is a bit of espionage coming.mrs merle who appears to everyone perfect.is setting up a male friend of hers to court and try to marry isabel because she is wealthy.how awful the minute some-one is wealthy the vultures descend.maybe i am wrong and mrs merle is doing it because she thinks they will be a good match and shes helping them.but i really dont think so.as isabel as made it clear she isnt looking for ove but adventure.

[Clunkshift]

Don't worry BW, its only Eleanor racing away, I'm only up to chapter 15.
I haven't found any excitement yet but my feelings for Isabel have risen as far as ambivalent and I almost like Ralph, who has given me a quote that I can associate with:
“When people forget I’m a poor creature I’m often discommoded, but its worse when they remember it!”

I think this neatly sums up the odd outlook of people with a long term illness or disability and If I thought that Henry James had felt this sentiment for himself, I could forgive him for some of his verbosity.

There is a Free on-line pdf copy of portrait of a lady at:

http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/free_ebooks/The_Portrait_of_a_Lady_NT.pdf

[eleanor2]

hey clunk i am trying to get it finished.i have an exciting wilbur smith book to read.well i have three actually.i like to finish a book if i start it.you never know i might learn something. clunk what does intoloceuter or something like that mean.

[Clunkshift]

E2,
It literally means a person who takes part in a conversation from the Latin inter- between + loqui to talk, hence an alternative meaning is interptreter or middle man.

(I should have asked Shelli now that she has confessed to being an etymologist)

It is just another example of James being a verbose old windbag...

I will catch up, honest guv.

[eleanor2]

thanks clunk.i really dont think he needs to keep using some of these words.

[Clunkshift]

I am forming the opinion that Henry James doesn't really like his own characters, he seems to give little cause for the reader to feel any sort of affinity to them. James just seems to revel in being a narrator and pundit and savours the "feelings" of his characters more than giving much to the reader.

Mr Touchett escapes lightly because he dies before any major criticism of him comes up but a rich recluse in poor health who doesn't really care for anyone enough to have any great feelings is little loss to the story - he is merely the supplier of wealth for all the freeloaders.

Speaking of freeloaders, his wife is utterly selfish, rude and a total bore. Far from being a kind benefactor, she is more hinderance than help to Isabel.

Ralph is painted as so weak and miserable a character that he must surely end up as Isabel's knight in shining armour. If he doesn't, then he takes the blame for doling out huge sums of money in a weird social experiment than is almost guaranteed to drag his cousin into some sort of immorality.

Isabel is treated by turns as a strong paragaon of beauty and virtue and then as a weak girl who is easily led, fooled and used.

Madame Merle truly is too good to be true, and will thus make an ideal villain.

Mr Osmonde is short of money and long on time and charm - at least to someone who knows as little of the world as Isabel

I find James annoying for his long words, repeated use of words that add no value (like interlocutor) and now for his little French phrases, he wouldn'y write this paragraph without adding a bon mot to make it sound exotic.

Isabel has really seen nothing of Europe and scarcely met any Europeans; she went to Paris and only met the American ex-pats and now she has gone to Italy to meet the ex-pats there too.

I am amused by James' tiresome proclamation of all Americans being the best people on earth, while at the same time making his examples the most insular, ignorant and arrogant people ever to travel.

He actually puts London and Paris in a poor light when compared to American cities - forgetting that until around 1880, Washington DC was a place where any elegant buildings were dotted around a virtual swamp and connected by muddy tracks; I think he has an awful lack of cultural appreciation.

I don't think I would invite Henry James for dinner...

[eleanor2]

clunk whose rushing on now.........i tell you i will not be happy if isobel does fall for mr osmond.i mean she has turned down a handsome young business man who has been in love with her for ages.obviously showering her with love and attentin.then the young handsome filthy rich lord warburton.who come on he does seem a very nice chap.now we meet this mr osmond who is after her for her money.isobel doesnt seem a bread head to me.i think she would see through him.As for Mrs merle if she is doing this purely for the money .well i am shocked at the depravity of human nature.she is being portrayed as such a woman of many virtues.

[eleanor2]

this book reading seems to be going on a go slow.

[Clunkshift]

I have reached the end of chapter 28 but didn't dare comment because its so exciting and I didn't want to spoil it for you.

On the other hand, while some novels may be racy and hard to put down, this one is sluggish and hard to pick up. I think it would be much improved by a quick bout of sado- masochism, the odd murder and some gratuitous violence.

Did you want comments?

[eleanor2]

chapter 28 i am sure i have read that chapter it didnt set my heart racing what have i missed.i will be truthful.i have a soft spot for lord warburton.i would have fell in love with him i think.he sounds so loving and sentimental.isobel is a fool letting him go.i mean mr sleaze osmond is after her money.what does she see in mr osmond i want to know.he sounds a right serious bore to me.

[Clunkshift]

Eleanor,

Its been a tough evening but I have read to the end of chapter 40 now.
I'm confused and disappointed.
The big marriage to Donny Osmonde is a bit of an anti-climax and Isabel with probably die of boredom. Even Henry James gets bored with them and skips nearly 3 years to make pansy a nineteen year old doormat.
He brings in the French guy as another stalking horse like Jasper Goodfellow (or was it Caspar Weinburg?) jsut so he can bring in Lord Warble as on old lecher who if he can't have the love of his life, will settle for her step daughter instead.
Ralph Touchy is on his last gasp, just hanging on to see what becomes of his money. Old Mrs Touchy, who must be a great age by now, can't even be bothered to spend time with her dying son.

What the book is in desparate need of is a good scandal like finding that Donny Osmonde is secretly already married to Madame Merlot, who in turn is a male drag artist.

This book is a classic in the way that a Ford Edsel or an Austin Atlantic is a classic car - they were rubbish when new and only exist now for their rarity value. I think James' books only exist as a warning to authors not to cloud their meaning with long winded obfuscations (see, its affecting me now!)


I could cheerfully beat James to death with a thesaurus, I have tired of his circumlocutions and started speed reading to avoid the turgid details.


Sorry Beucherwurm if I am talking this up too much, but it has certainly raised my appreciation of the racy prose and fast action of Dostoyevsky.

I am determined to complete the book though, so that I cancriticise it with impunity.

Clunk x.

[buecherwurm]

Don't mind me, Clunk. I like to read all your comments. I will do some serious reading now. Have to go to Hamburg by train on Friday. So I'll have about 5 hours of reading time. I will look for all the information you've given.
I remember that you once said Henry James didn't really research enough. Well, quite early ( in my book on page 57) he says: "I don't know about the novels," said Mr Touchett. " I believe the novels have a great deal of ability, but I don't suppose they're very accurate" Mr Touchett continues talking about a former guest, a novelist, ".....but she was not the sort of person you could depend on for evidence."
So, that makes me wonder, did Henry James know, that he wasn't very accurate?
I once saw part of a programme about Henry James on television. There was this woman talking quite enthusiastically about Henry James and his ability to use big words and to write sentences that need a whole page or more. It seems his later novels are like this. So I for one will not read them because I want to be able to figure out what a sentence is about.
But I'm determined to finish this book, even though I find it a bit boring. So, happy reading everybody

[eleanor2]

oh clunk i was realy hoping isobel wasnt going to be so weak willed as to marry mr osmond...disapointment or what.i was wondering if mrs merle was realy is mother, sister maybe to the woman he called mum.scandal of unmarried mother etc.i mean why else has she set isobel up for such a fate with such a man.i like lord warburton be kind to him.he cant help being forever in love with isobel.some men are like that.beuch glad you are joining us.i forced myself to read ch 30 last night.hoping isobel was going to do a runner from mr osmond.

[Clunkshift]

I've been pushing on because the novel has at last caught my interest.
It has only taken 41 chapters for me to gain a reasonable interest but I can see why this book would be useful for literary courses as it can be used in so many ways:

feminism - how a lovely, bright, intelligent woman can be subdued and stultified by marriage to a manipulative, overbearing and controlling man.

nationalism - how supposedly worldly wise Americans can travel Europe, miss the culture, only see the financial value of things and only manage to meet each other in a spirit of USA versus the ignorant savages of Europe.

class - how in the USA class is perceived as old versus new money (and how much you have) while the USA perception of class in Europe is solely based on peerage and titles.

As a novel it is mind-numbingly slow, deficient in good description (as Beuch said, the author's reasearch of lack thereof is very apparent) and actually lacks a good plot line. This has to be the one trick pony of stories with one theme grinding on while a more interesting background flashed past un-noticed.

I won't comment on the story at this stage because by chapter 45 it is actually quite interesting and revealing and if I commented it would spoil it. So let me know when you reach the end of chapter 45.

I still think James needs a good slap to knock some sense into him, he rides roughshod over religious and social aspects of Europe that it is no wonder that Miss Stackpole produces nothing of note for her publishers. He could lay claim to one of the most cursory descriptions of Venice ever written and must have led a very blinkered life indeed. He puts his characters on hold for years, as if they have been in suspended animation and I believe his only real interest is in social interaction and the contrast between what is said and displayed and the real meaning and motives. His interests are cerebral rather than physical or carnal.

Lastly, no matter how much I think about it, the title is odd; how can it be "The portrait of a Lady"? There is (so far) no actual portrait in the story so how can it be "The"? Is James seriously suggesting that Isabel is the prototype for all women who aspire to be "Ladies"? Surely even he would see the arrogance of such a thought.
I could accept "A portrait of a lady" or just "Portrait of a Lady", but I'm afraid that it just keeps Henry James at the very bottom of my fantasy dinner guest list.

feel free to disagree or show me the error of my ways or the beauty of James' prose.

Clunk x

[Clunkshift]

I have reached chapter 54, and only have the final thrilling chapter left to read, or as Henry James might intimate:
I now precipitate the penultimate relation of the epic narrative belles-lettres depiction of a gentlewoman.

Frankly, if the Reduced Shakespeare Company can rattle through a Shakespeare play in around one minute, I feel this hefty tome could be reduced to about five chapters without loss of meaning. It grieves me to read such words as jocund in a book so morbidly drear and lacking in any light heartedness.

I was about to postulate that the book shows two types of people, the martyrs and the oppressors. Without giving away anything I can say that there are three martyrs; Isabel, Ralph and Pansy, all the others are oppressors to a greater or lesser degree. But it is not quite so simple as Ralph is also an oppressor because it is his anonymous gift that leads Isabel into trouble.

I am not sure about James’s intentions as to whether any of the characters should be viewed sympathetically because he seems to change some of them, such as Henrietta from a pain in the nether regions to finally being quite likeable. This also coincides with an about turn (a Henryesque volte-face) about the United States, which turns from the greatest of all civilisations to a place where intellect is over esteemed.

James remains at the bottom of my list for descriptive prose but he unintentionally gave me great mirth when instead of saying “Isabel passed her and went out” he says “while Isabel passed out”. I enjoyed the thought of our brave heroine swooning and laying comatose on the floor, as it would have been one of the most demonstrative things she had done.
James then describes am overnight train journey from Rome to London via Paris, which I am sure would have taken many hours.
For all of his verbose interlocutions, James dismisses this journey through the hills of Northern Italy, the Cote D’Azure, the Alps and the entire length of France as:
“XXXX descended from the Paris Mail at Charing Cross……telegraphed from Turin……..XXXX performed this journey with sightless eyes and took little pleasure in the countries traversed, decked out though they were in the richest freshness of spring.”
The total lack of description and feelings makes me wonder why he bothered with any words about the journey at all. Why not skip the boring bit and start a new chapter with: “In London…” I find it quite irritating, but then I enjoy travel writing.
For a man who professed to have been much travelled and well educated, he must have toured Europe with sightless eyes too.
It may or may not have been the “Paris mail” when James wrote this book but 40 years later in the heyday of steam railways, from Gare du Nord by Fleche D’or to Calais Maritime, then crossing the channel on the rail ferry and the final blast from Dover Marine to Charing Cross on the Golden Arrow took over eight hours, so combined with the need to cross Paris and a stop at Turin and allowing for the slow pace of Victorian trains, this was an epic journey.

I look forward to some more humane comments from Eleanor about the characters, before I mentally gun them all down.

Clunk x

[Oola]

Re: the journey; the fact that 'sightless eyes' was used is perhaps by the descriptive elements are so limited. We're not supposed to the see the wonders of the landscapes, because whoever took the journey didn't either.

Just a quick thought. I haven't read this since my first year of A-Level English Lit. Was going to dig it out but not sure where I put it, it's probably Mum and Dad's attic...

[eleanor2]

clunk its your fault.last night i got into that book and just kept reading.trying to get to ch40.only managed 5 chapters got to 35.then eyes drooping.so nobody at all likes mr osmond.i think some of their reasons are not nice.the only reason i dont like him;isnt because he is poor and boring and oh how could some-one like isobel fall for him.but the fact he is marrying her for her money.i am still hoping he loves her too.poor ralph i feel sorry for him.his pusuading his dad to leave her the money as made her vulnerable.thing is i am hoping her money at least helps poor pansy out a bit."reading in hope"

[eleanor2]

i am half way through ch39.not much in the way of excitement.isobel has become a real bore by the looks of things.completely under the thumb of her husband.i still like lord warburton.he seems so caring.waiting for this ch40 clunk was on about.

[eleanor2]

well i got to ch 40 still no excitement.but ch 43 now then.i am so sad for lord warburton.i have the same fear as isobel.that he might be courting pansy to be close to isobel.oooooooooif he is still so in love with isobel after all these years my heart goes out to him.if it is so i will definately cry. I do think if he married pansy he would be a kind caring husband. mr osmond he is an ogre.he would marry pansy off to lord warburton love or no love.isobel well she is absolutely crazy to have married him.that money certainly didnt make her happy.you know what i think i think lord warburton is going to help mr rossier to get into mr osmonds good books.i think if he knows pansy and mr rossier love each other.he wont wish them to spend a life time of heartache like he has.

[eleanor2]

wow isobel is soooo unhappy.what a nightmare marraige.oh lord warburton is still in love with isobel after all these years.......

[eleanor2]

i am still trawling on.can you tell i am ot a quitter.it is getting a bit interestingat the end.poor isobel is so miserable she even talks of death like it is an escape.henrietta bless her is not being such a pain.she is being a comfort of sorts to isobel as well as looking after sicky ralph.lord warburton has done a runner from miss osmond.we are seeing such dark thoughts in the head of mr goodwood.isobels other ex lover.why does she still have all these men after her.......

[eleanor2]

hoorayFINISHED.well i was upset when ralph died.feel very sorry for isobel.what a wasted life.poor mr goodwod he really thought she would turn to him in the end.but no it is not clear.but it appears she went back to rome to reconcile to her husband and live her life in lonely misery.the moral of the story.money does not bring you happiness.she would have been much happier if like she said she had never met her aunt and come to England.arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the end.

[Clunkshift]

Eleanor, I am pleased you finally finished the book. I am sorry but I was completely unmoved by the whole thing. A bunch of rich American wasters and freeloaders playing at culture but sticking to their own kind.
Henry James is as much a champion of US supremacy as Neville Shute is of Australia - and just as insipid.

As the book is all about feelings I can see its attraction for women, but I see no merit in the book at all.

In the last year my best reads have been A most wanted man by John Le Carre, 1812 by Adam Zamoyski and Tommy by Richard Holmes.

I read lots of books but in a novel, my benchmark is if I care about the characters and I can honestly say that none of James' characters mean anything to me at all.

Sorry.

Clunk x

[eleanor2]

clunk it was the hardest book i have ever read.it was so slow and boring.isobel made no sense to me what soever.there were too many men in love with her for no reason.the speed she fell for mr osmond,when he was such a boring person.etc etc.but i do like to get to know the characters a bit.i liked ralph cus he was so ill,so alone,hard mother the lot.yet he always had a positive personality.glad to have finished.i am reading a wierd book now.i really like wilbur smiths egyptian trilogy.well his new book the quest is the 4th book.it is a bit wierd upto yet.waiting to see if it gets better.happy reading.

[buecherwurm]

Congratulations eleanor. I still have to struggle through the book. Don't know how much time I'll need, though. Will let you both know if and when I succeed.

[eleanor2]

i just didnt want to give in beuch,it was a challenge to finish it.