Pregnancy Pact

[jazzactivist]

I read today about a large group of 15/16 year old girls in Gloucester, USA, who appear to have organised a pregancy pact together. Teachers and medical staff in the town were surprised that so many teenagers were becoming pregnant and it transpired that they had arranged it between them. They didn't want partners or relationships just babies with the intention that they would rear them together. What do you think of this? Is it just a childish, romantic idea that caught on in this town, the obvious result of contraception and sex education not being freely available there, or a fairly sensible plan that if teenage girls are going to become pregnant then best to plan it with your friends so that you can all help and support one another? It will certainly have an impact on the next generations there. What's your view?

[franbee]

I think it's foolish and irresponsible. They'd have been better getting a dog each and meeting to take them out together.
I wonder if that was the total number of intended pregnancies, assuming that some would fail to conceive in the time.

[keepersdaughter]

This has been on the news shows over here. As I understand it this particular high school is in a fairly insolated fishing community where the fishing industry is depressed and there aren't many jobs. When the school nurse and school authorities realised there had been a particular spike in the teen pregnancies (about 17 I think) she resigned because she was not allowed to distribute birth control to the underage girls without parental consent. The school does already have a child care facility so any girls who do get pregnant can stay and finish their education by the way.

That doesn't appear to be core of the problem as far as I can see it. This particular group of girls did not want or seek contraception - they made a pact and conserted effort to get pregnant by their boyfriends and in one case apparently by a 24 year old homeless man. They have no plans to marry the boyfriends instead think it will be great fun to all have babies at the same time and have an idealised idea of watching the kiddies all grow up together, as some sort of special group.

They are full of excitement at the baby showers, and attention. No thought has been given to who is going to pay for the babies care and upkeep, presumably their families and the state will take care of them. Apart from the obvious problems these (I think the number is 8) girls are underage (15) which means the boyfriends and the drifter are now liable for prosecution for statutory rape.

Maybe it's partly due to the fact that they are from a very small community without prospects of job or career, and it's partly attention and support - from each other - and a real life doll to love and be loved by. I think the media has a part to play in this too, so many celebrities are having babies. Unfortunately, nowadays it's celebrities who are the role models for the young.

[Pippa]

I think you have hit the nail or the head here, KP, 'celebrities who are the role models for the young' which of course bears no reality to the lives of these young girls in a fishing village. There is so much opportunity to read about 'celebrities' these days, whole magazines and TV channels focused entirely on them. I think people actually feel they know these famous non-entities and base their lives on them and of course they are not particularly wholesome. I would like to see how the story of the group of youngsters who are all having babies at the same time pans out. Bring back Doris Day I say.

[Crocus]

I've noticed this on Sky News and it's quite worrying. 15/16 year old's shouldn't (to my mind) be having sexual relationships in the first place! Secondly, what about their future? Why, just for the sake of a pact made in probably a moment of sillyness, fall pregnant, and in doing so, jeopardize their future? These girls want to play adult games, but do they realise they need the emotional strength and maturity bring up a child? Do they realise that babies grow into toddlers, needing more and more from their parents as they grow older, especially love and support? Because that's what a child needs first: an emotional and loving bond for the rest of their lives before anything else.

Sex education should start at home from parents' side, and not out there amongst friends, boyfriends, books, telly or whatever. It's first and foremost parents' responsibility to give guidelines, to teach their children about this one important fact in life. Regarding celebrities, young girls, and probably boys as well, look up to them. Actually any adult is a role model, come to think of it.

[dinger]

I read about this yesterday and it stated some of the group were going back time after time to be tested and were disappointed on learning they had'nt achieved pregnancy .

[keepersdaughter]

I think the problem is Crocus, peer pressure to some extent, they are just so young and inexperienced and have no idea of the responsibility involved in having a child and being a parent, because they are still children themselves - have no idea of the finiancial hardships and emotional resposibility of raising a child. Babies having babies, obviously it will fall to the parents of these girls to take on that responsibility and the girls are just so young and clueless they don't get it. What on earth would happen if the parents were to turn round and say OK you are old enough to have a child then you are old enough to take on that responsibility to somehow get a job, find a roof over your head and take on all the parental responsibilities for the child yourself - I'm sure that wouldn't happen and these girls didn't even consider that. Health coverage alone is astronomically expensive over here. How will that be sorted out I wonder. The problem with this celebrity culture it's so warped. Most celebrities don't exemplefy (? sp) a good, achievable livestyle. It seems to be this having whatever you want, when you want - no consequences, bad behaviour is rewarded and glorified as some sort of mark of achievement or strength. Ok climbing off my soapbox :) .

[Primrose]

I didn't read this but have just been made to think about it through this post.

Can you remember a computerised baby that is programmed to cry, need its nappy changed, same weight as that aged baby, everything 24/7?

The baby was able to be hooked up to a computer and how it had been cared for was recorded.

The programme, where I first saw it, showed the girl pushing it to school with all her books etc and if she hadn't settled her baby then it would even cry in school time. She also had to arrange her time out with her friends around the baby.

If something like this could be brought into schools as a necessity do you think it would help?

Gilly xx

[keepersdaughter]

They actually have this in the schools over here Gilly. I can't remember if it's done in the junior (age 17) or senior (age 18) year. I believe most states offer this - not all students take it, it depends what classes you are following in your senior years. Even if the kids don't take it themselves, then they are fully aware of it because other kids are walking around school, and taking home, a doll that's programmed to cry, feed, need changing etc.

[sandybay]

That's so sad, that those girls have made such an uninformed decision.

A friend, an ex-teacher thinks that from her experience is has to with the girls wanting 'control over something or somebody'.

How is it that after so much time and money is spent on education girls are still coming out of the school 'sausage machine' with so little self esteem.
Look at the rate of abortions amongst the very young. So sad.
There is nothing worse than seeing young girls out pushing a pram with a young child given something like a cheap sausage roll or a packet of crisps to keep it quiet while she uses her mobile to chat to friends - completely ignoring the chiild.

Oh gosh - does that sound terribly right -wing ?

[franbee]

The MU have 2 of those virtual babies in Manchester, a normal one and a drug affected one. They go out to schools, are in use all the time.

[sandybay]

Do you think society has swung to far to one side of the pendulum ?

At one time [ which we wouldn't want to go back to] families disowned girls who got pregnant 'out of wedlock', there were no contraceptive services available for single women, and there was no financial help from the state for unwed mothers.

Now we have financial aid from the state, housing, benefits, most families will support their daughter/sister etc. emotionally if not fiancially. It has become acceptable to be a single parent at an early age. Some ultra feminists almost argue that it is the way forward for society - men not needed thankyou. Despite available sex education, contraceptives we in Britain have
one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy and a over 250,000 abortions a year - some at late stage of pregnancy.

We do not want to return to the awful hypocrisy of the Victorian age but maybe a healthy dose of shame is what is missing in our society.
We seem to say that everyone's way of life is valid, we musn't judge because of political correctness.

Is encouraging a 'healthy' sense of shame in our youngsters not a good idea ?
I heard a psychologist put forward a similar argument that we allow our young to grow up with no boundaries - no one dare 'judge' their behaviour for fear of being called reactionary or out of touch.

[Ivy]

I think peer pressure and the need for love are the two keys to this problem. And yes Sandybay it is heartbreaking to see young (teenage) mothers with a a toddler that is kept quiet by unhealthy food the mother smoking and talking on her mobile phone and that is NOT right wing- even though - unfortunately this topic is covered by right wing politicians only ( if at all) because the others pretend it's the right of self-fulfilment to have children even if you are not prepared and able to look after them. Here in Germany we have so many children that are neglected and die due to abuse because their parents simply have no idea what to do with a baby once it starts to cry. Only today I read an other story of a young father who hit his baby boy of two weeks so hard on the head that he is likely to die from the brain injuries.The father who was alone with the child ( mother was serving a prison sentence for riding on public transport without ticket!!!!) just wanted to "shut up" his crying baby!
I think as long as parenthood is not valued more and as long as women are talked into giving their babies into the hands of other people in order to return as quick as possible to a job that gets them just enough money to pay the childminder this will not change.
How are young parents who never knew love and affection in their own family, supposed to pass it on to their children? They never experienced that there is more to parenthood than providing food and a roof over your head. (Steps off soapbox before it collapses...)

[keepersdaughter]

As you say Ivy - "How are young parents who never knew love and affection in their own family, supposed to pass it on to their children? They never experienced that there is more to parenthood than providing food and a roof over your head." But why does it appear there are more and more of the young generation not experiencing love and affection from their own families do you think?. Many of us didn't have perfect childhoods, but still we try to do our best in providing a loving supportive home for our children. What are the parents doing when they could or should be spending time or giving attention to their children do you think?.

[Ivy]

TV , drink and avoiding any responsibility.
On the one hand moral regulations (that were often a curse) such as church and society are no longer dictating the every day life and on the other hand there is nothing that functions as a guideline. My mum was an end of war child, Her dad died in a POW camp in Russia. My granny had to bring up her three kids alone without a proper job. She desperately tried to make ends meet and was terribly overworked and often thought she'd better drown herself and the children than go on. But she did go on and two of her children grew up to be very affectionate parents (one could not have children but wanted to) Why you would like to ask. They were loved ,they were cared about and they grew up in an environment where nothing was perfect but humans were more worth than anything else. Nobody dreamt to be Paris Hilton or Victoria Beckham their aims were more realistic and achievable. ( a full stomach and a bed for each child)
The other day I was talking to one of my son's friends and the readiness he showed to accept the fact that parents who are unemployed don't care for their children shocked me at first but with a little thinking I realised that this is the norm , the more time parents have at their hands the less they care about their children, the less they know what to do with them, the less they know how to prepare a healthy and cheep meal etc. I know I am generalising and there are exceptions everywhere but it is the general direction I am ranting about. Children are for free and what's for free has no value.

[eleanor2]

i think the younger generation are caught up in the new social phenomena.its called post modernism.it is all about looking after no 1.its all about what suits me first.self sacrifice is low on the agenda.its about aquiring and keeping what you want at the expense of others. years ago it was a social norm that a mothers role was in the home looking after the children.if they needed new shoes mother would do without to provide for her child.i know i am generalising and there are obviously lots of variants.women want to be free and equal to do what they want.i am not saying women dont deserve a bit more liberality.it is just sad that males and females as it takes two.dont use precaution and sense to delay having children untill they have sorted there own lifes.got established in a relationship and home.set good foundations and securities.then discuss responsibilities of having a child.when you are young and get pregnant it is for life not just for christmas.you cant just put a baby out on the street when you can't cope or realise you dont want the responsibility and ties any more.

[Ivy]

hm... basically what I wanted to say thanks for putting it into less agitated words for me.

[souter girl]

I think we live in a very selfish society where too often adults set a poor example to their children by wanting everything and wanting it NOW and where they/we do not realise that responsibility or duty (dirty word today) should come before self-gratification. After the war my father dearly wanted to make a career in journalism on one of the national dailies(he had already been writing for Scottish Sunday papers before the war) but he had a daughter, my half-sister (as his wife had gone off with somebody else during the war, he was in the middle of a divorce.) He was also the eldest son and was expected to go into his father's family business. Perhaps he was cautious, but I believe that he saw it as his duty to go into the business and provide a home for his daughter. He never expressed any resentment, once the decision was made that was that. His generation didn't make a big deal out of duty or responsibility - a far cry from some of the feckless behaviour we see at all levels of society today. We are urged to have "me time" - did our mothers? "Because you're worth it" purrs the voice on the commercial - are we? Don't get me started!!!!!

[lesleyhannah]

As an enthusiastic amateur genealogist I know that illegitimacy was not invented by this society. The nineteenth century abounded with working-class unmarried mothers. Earlier in the century it seems it was quite usual to get the girl pregnant before marriage in order to test her fertility (an important factor in agricultural societies). I was quite shocked to discover the number of unmarried mothers in my own family tree.

I think the 'sense of shame' came later in the century, when unmarried mothers and their children became the responsibility of the parish, and the residents objected to supporting the offspring of the 'undeserving' poor. Unfortunately, the shame was directed against the children - and who would want to go back to days in the early 20th century, where innocent children were stigmatised for being illegitimate. Children went to great lengths to hide the fact that their mother was unmarried.

And the sense of shame which was very real when I was growing up in the 1950s did result in too many girls dying horrible deaths from illegal abortions. I wouldn't want to go back to those days either.

I don't have any answers, although I do think young girls have an unrealistic idea of what having a baby is like. I know I was quite unprepared for the reality, when I had my first baby - in my teens, with a husband. If their home lives are depressing, the idea of a beautiful baby to love and show off may be very enticing, especially as magazines show so many celebrities collecting babies as trophies. We know the reality, but teenage girls often don't listen to teachers or other boring adults.

I don't know how to achieve it, but it would be good to destroy the 'trendy' image of being a young mother, promoted by celebrities and the media, and inject a bit of reality into the picture. No, I wouldn't re-introduce the sense of shame. I would like to replace it with a sense of compassion - and with a huge dose of unromantic realism.